4 ms·

It’s old, definitely retro, but I always thought vintage meant older than that. Like how vintage cars are 50+ years old. To that end you wouldn’t call the Dream

It’s old, definitely retro, but I always thought vintage meant older than that. Like how vintage cars are 50+ years old. To that end you wouldn’t call the Dreamcast “vintage gaming” (like you might with Pong machines) but you’d definitely still call it retro. Maybe my comment comes more from a place of “oh shit I’m old” rather than a strong objection to the authors comments…

seized 5y ago
In many areas cars can qualify for collector plates at 25 years old ( and other requirements like condition). So depending on your definition of retro vs collector vs vintage...
- rbanffy 5y ago
  I wonder if my Unix workstations can get collector MAC addresses ;-)
Jaruzel 5y ago
I'm heavily into retro computing, and my cut off year is 2000. Anything newer than that is not 'retro' in my book. For vintage computing though, I think it would be before the IBM PC, so 1981.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  You're talking PC gaming where as the OP was talking about consoles. PC gaming definitely matured around 2000 with many of the titles post-2000 losing their innovative "omg can computers really do that" mystique. However for consoles 2000 slices between machines of the same generation like the aforementioned Dreamcast (pre-2000) and Gamecube (post-2000). These are systems that shared groundbreaking titles between them like Phantasy Star Online; which was one of the very first online multiplayer games for consoles (and which I still play weekly guild matches, streamed on Twitch). After that generation of consoles the specifications for consoles were all pretty similar to PC (chipsets aside): ethernet, wireless, HDMI (the previous generation were all pre-HD too), a HDD, etc. But it was the Dreamcast (and, released much later, the Xbox) in the generation of consoles before that really pioneered this shift in paradigm for console gaming and which many of the consoles of that era only had support for via addons (GC Ethernet Adapter, PS2 Network Adaptor, HDDs for the PS2 Expansion Bay, etc. Heck, even the GC didn't ship with ethernet instead having a dial up modem, and it wasn't even as fast as 56K in most regions!) Thus I think they deserve to be retro for the same reason that 1996-2000 for PC gaming does: they defined how the next couple of decades of gaming would look while making plenty of mistakes along the way.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    > PC gaming definitely matured around 2000 with many of the titles post-2000 losing their innovative "omg can computers really do that" mystique. They definitely lost innovation. The only innovations in gamimg were bloat and greed. That's why is more entertaining to play older titles: they are all about play, they do not try to extort you or bring your PC to the limit.
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      I'm a massive hard retro gamer too and if you only look at AAA titles then it's easy to see how you're right. However the gaming industry is so much bigger than EA et al. There are so many fun indie games out now that have a real embodiment of that creativity you miss. Take Untitled Goose Game, for example. It was released 3 years ago and you play the part of a Goose who's mission it is to annoy as many people in a quaint English village as possible. The game is basically a modern day equivalent of the How to Be a Complete Bastard class of games from the Spectrum era of home systems. And it's fun too! There's also no shortage of modern games released for older hardware. On the shelf behind me I have at least 5 games released in the last 5 years for various Sega consoles. The Gameboy and Gameboy Advance also see a surprising number of new releases each year too (though I don't collect for those consoles specifically).
    - dolmen 5y ago
      You should blame the hardware abstraction brought by the operating system layers. I'm sure John Carmack still does amazing tricks at Oculus.
      - hnlmorg 5y ago
        The GPs point was about game play not game engines. It's a common complaint made by retro gamers too.
  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    The GC didn't ship with a modem at all even in early not cost reduced models. There may have been some bundles with a modem for PSO1&2 or Homeland but there was only 4 games in its entire library that could even go online. The Dreamcast had a built in modem and some models of PS2 had one built in.
- theodric 5y ago
  Most of the classic Palms have 68k CPUs in them, and feel more like a handheld Classic Mac than a modern smartphone. I am also a vintage snob with a low cutoff (anything after 1985 puts me to sleep) but I will give Palms and other such primitive handhelds a pass.
indrora 5y ago
Let me make you old. The following things happened 30 years ago, give or take a few weeks: * H W Bush meets with Yeltsin, Cold War officially declared over. * The EU was officially formed. * Ukraine and four other nations in the Commonwealth of Independent States reject Russia's proposal to maintain unified armed forces. * Dahmer sentenced to 15 terms of life in prison 20 years ago, NASA began mapping the surface of Mars and the Sierra Leone Civil War came to a close. 20/30 years is around the line where "Vintage" starts to come into play. PowerPC Macs are on the edge of "Vintage" but their mid-90s Motorola68k based versions are definitely there.
- anthk 5y ago
  Mac OS X Tiger looks fairly modem and a G4 with OpenBSD for macppc it's still usable enough for lots of environments.
- hulitu 5y ago
  > The EU was officially formed. EU existed from some time.
  - andylynch 5y ago
    It's predecessors like the EEC were set up in the fifties post WWII, but yes the European Union was only established in 1992 with the Maastricht Treaty.
    - anthk 5y ago
      Spain joined EEC at 1986, I consider that a pre-EU.
- laumars 5y ago
  You’re listing off that that’s 30 years ago yet we are talking about 20 years ago, and barely 20 years at that. The difference between 20 and 30 is pretty significant (it’s literally 50% more).
BuildTheRobots 5y ago
Classic cars become tax exempt after 40 years in the UK.

seized 5y ago

In many areas cars can qualify for collector plates at 25 years old ( and other requirements like condition). So depending on your definition of retro vs collector vs vintage...

rbanffy 5y ago
I wonder if my Unix workstations can get collector MAC addresses ;-)

Jaruzel 5y ago

I'm heavily into retro computing, and my cut off year is 2000. Anything newer than that is not 'retro' in my book. For vintage computing though, I think it would be before the IBM PC, so 1981.

hnlmorg 5y ago
You're talking PC gaming where as the OP was talking about consoles. PC gaming definitely matured around 2000 with many of the titles post-2000 losing their innovative "omg can computers really do that" mystique. However for consoles 2000 slices between machines of the same generation like the aforementioned Dreamcast (pre-2000) and Gamecube (post-2000). These are systems that shared groundbreaking titles between them like Phantasy Star Online; which was one of the very first online multiplayer games for consoles (and which I still play weekly guild matches, streamed on Twitch). After that generation of consoles the specifications for consoles were all pretty similar to PC (chipsets aside): ethernet, wireless, HDMI (the previous generation were all pre-HD too), a HDD, etc. But it was the Dreamcast (and, released much later, the Xbox) in the generation of consoles before that really pioneered this shift in paradigm for console gaming and which many of the consoles of that era only had support for via addons (GC Ethernet Adapter, PS2 Network Adaptor, HDDs for the PS2 Expansion Bay, etc. Heck, even the GC didn't ship with ethernet instead having a dial up modem, and it wasn't even as fast as 56K in most regions!) Thus I think they deserve to be retro for the same reason that 1996-2000 for PC gaming does: they defined how the next couple of decades of gaming would look while making plenty of mistakes along the way.
- hulitu 5y ago
  > PC gaming definitely matured around 2000 with many of the titles post-2000 losing their innovative "omg can computers really do that" mystique. They definitely lost innovation. The only innovations in gamimg were bloat and greed. That's why is more entertaining to play older titles: they are all about play, they do not try to extort you or bring your PC to the limit.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    I'm a massive hard retro gamer too and if you only look at AAA titles then it's easy to see how you're right. However the gaming industry is so much bigger than EA et al. There are so many fun indie games out now that have a real embodiment of that creativity you miss. Take Untitled Goose Game, for example. It was released 3 years ago and you play the part of a Goose who's mission it is to annoy as many people in a quaint English village as possible. The game is basically a modern day equivalent of the How to Be a Complete Bastard class of games from the Spectrum era of home systems. And it's fun too! There's also no shortage of modern games released for older hardware. On the shelf behind me I have at least 5 games released in the last 5 years for various Sega consoles. The Gameboy and Gameboy Advance also see a surprising number of new releases each year too (though I don't collect for those consoles specifically).
  - dolmen 5y ago
    You should blame the hardware abstraction brought by the operating system layers. I'm sure John Carmack still does amazing tricks at Oculus.
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      The GPs point was about game play not game engines. It's a common complaint made by retro gamers too.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  The GC didn't ship with a modem at all even in early not cost reduced models. There may have been some bundles with a modem for PSO1&2 or Homeland but there was only 4 games in its entire library that could even go online. The Dreamcast had a built in modem and some models of PS2 had one built in.
theodric 5y ago
Most of the classic Palms have 68k CPUs in them, and feel more like a handheld Classic Mac than a modern smartphone. I am also a vintage snob with a low cutoff (anything after 1985 puts me to sleep) but I will give Palms and other such primitive handhelds a pass.

indrora 5y ago

Let me make you old. The following things happened 30 years ago, give or take a few weeks: * H W Bush meets with Yeltsin, Cold War officially declared over. * The EU was officially formed. * Ukraine and four other nations in the Commonwealth of Independent States reject Russia's proposal to maintain unified armed forces. * Dahmer sentenced to 15 terms of life in prison 20 years ago, NASA began mapping the surface of Mars and the Sierra Leone Civil War came to a close. 20/30 years is around the line where "Vintage" starts to come into play. PowerPC Macs are on the edge of "Vintage" but their mid-90s Motorola68k based versions are definitely there.

anthk 5y ago
Mac OS X Tiger looks fairly modem and a G4 with OpenBSD for macppc it's still usable enough for lots of environments.
hulitu 5y ago
> The EU was officially formed. EU existed from some time.
- andylynch 5y ago
  It's predecessors like the EEC were set up in the fifties post WWII, but yes the European Union was only established in 1992 with the Maastricht Treaty.
  - anthk 5y ago
    Spain joined EEC at 1986, I consider that a pre-EU.
laumars 5y ago
You’re listing off that that’s 30 years ago yet we are talking about 20 years ago, and barely 20 years at that. The difference between 20 and 30 is pretty significant (it’s literally 50% more).

BuildTheRobots 5y ago

Classic cars become tax exempt after 40 years in the UK.