4 ms·

There are such partnerships, they are called dev agencies. Usually good for partners themselves, less so for rank and file employees.

skywal_l 5y ago
Exactly like any lawyer firm.
WJW 5y ago
That is exactly the problem with the "Dev Hegemony" book; it spends the first half of the book showing how the current system naturally evolves from very human flaws like ambition and pride, then tries to spend the second half of the book going "Yeah but what if we all start treating each other as equals (except non-programmer, they get to be non-owner employees only)". World peace would also be an easy problem to solve if you can get everyone to just get along, but without a practical way of getting there it's just a pipe dream.
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  I mean I figure all I need to do is find one dev I get on well with to become a partner. In-fact someone floated it with me a few years ago and I was lukewarm because I didn't think I was ready (kind of regret it).
  - WJW 5y ago
    Starting an agency is the easiest part. Then after that comes the never ending grind to find and retain customers, who will never pay on time, refuse to budget time for frivolities like "testing" and "refactoring" and who will mercilessly shop out the work to as many of your competitors as they can find. Developer agencies have existed for decades and the reason that not everybody is rushing to work for them is because they are generally very poor place to work for compared to regular companies, even as a partner. They're often derogatorily called "body shops" for a reason.
    - LAC-Tech 5y ago
      As an independent contractor for the past two years, It hasn't been much of a grind finding and retaining customers. You have to put some work in, sure, but I don't feel it's particularly onerous. Never had to take someone out to dinner or cold call. People need software development skills and generally like it when you find them. As for never being paid on time - I think the most late it's ever been has been 2 weeks. Pretty annoying but not the biggest deal in the world.
      - WJW 5y ago
        Maybe I misunderstand what you hope to get out of the partnership then? The Dev Hegemony book describes a situation where everyone (every dev at least) magically becomes an "opportunist" in the books terms, without going into what will happen to all the pragmatists and idealists. Nor does it have an answer for why the opportunist/idealist/pragmatist divide will not reappear inside the agency.
        LAC-Tech 5y ago
        The scale of what I can deliver is somewhat limited as a single person.
      - lowercased 5y ago
        > As an independent contractor for the past two years, It hasn't been much of a grind finding and retaining customers....I think the most late it's ever been has been 2 weeks. When it's you who's gettind paid a bit late... it's manageable. When those late payments affect people you have to pay... it's a whole different game. I've been on both sides of this and it's great when it works, and bad when it doesn't. Building up a large buffer helps, but can take some time to get to an effective place that gets you more than a couple weeks of runway.
        LAC-Tech 5y ago
        Right. I mean I literally want to be co-owners of a business with one other person. Not hire a bunch of subordinates. A literal business partnership.

skywal_l 5y ago

Exactly like any lawyer firm.

WJW 5y ago

That is exactly the problem with the "Dev Hegemony" book; it spends the first half of the book showing how the current system naturally evolves from very human flaws like ambition and pride, then tries to spend the second half of the book going "Yeah but what if we all start treating each other as equals (except non-programmer, they get to be non-owner employees only)". World peace would also be an easy problem to solve if you can get everyone to just get along, but without a practical way of getting there it's just a pipe dream.

LAC-Tech 5y ago
I mean I figure all I need to do is find one dev I get on well with to become a partner. In-fact someone floated it with me a few years ago and I was lukewarm because I didn't think I was ready (kind of regret it).
- WJW 5y ago
  Starting an agency is the easiest part. Then after that comes the never ending grind to find and retain customers, who will never pay on time, refuse to budget time for frivolities like "testing" and "refactoring" and who will mercilessly shop out the work to as many of your competitors as they can find. Developer agencies have existed for decades and the reason that not everybody is rushing to work for them is because they are generally very poor place to work for compared to regular companies, even as a partner. They're often derogatorily called "body shops" for a reason.
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    As an independent contractor for the past two years, It hasn't been much of a grind finding and retaining customers. You have to put some work in, sure, but I don't feel it's particularly onerous. Never had to take someone out to dinner or cold call. People need software development skills and generally like it when you find them. As for never being paid on time - I think the most late it's ever been has been 2 weeks. Pretty annoying but not the biggest deal in the world.
    - WJW 5y ago
      Maybe I misunderstand what you hope to get out of the partnership then? The Dev Hegemony book describes a situation where everyone (every dev at least) magically becomes an "opportunist" in the books terms, without going into what will happen to all the pragmatists and idealists. Nor does it have an answer for why the opportunist/idealist/pragmatist divide will not reappear inside the agency.
      - LAC-Tech 5y ago
        The scale of what I can deliver is somewhat limited as a single person.
    - lowercased 5y ago
      > As an independent contractor for the past two years, It hasn't been much of a grind finding and retaining customers....I think the most late it's ever been has been 2 weeks. When it's you who's gettind paid a bit late... it's manageable. When those late payments affect people you have to pay... it's a whole different game. I've been on both sides of this and it's great when it works, and bad when it doesn't. Building up a large buffer helps, but can take some time to get to an effective place that gets you more than a couple weeks of runway.
      - LAC-Tech 5y ago
        Right. I mean I literally want to be co-owners of a business with one other person. Not hire a bunch of subordinates. A literal business partnership.