3 ms·

Part of the reason they don't really consider natural immunity is because everyone and their uncle will just say "oh yea, I think I already had it". Validating

Part of the reason they don't really consider natural immunity is because everyone and their uncle will just say "oh yea, I think I already had it". Validating that with a blood draw and neutralizing titre measurement is too expensive across the population vs a quick and nearly painless needle stick mass produced economically. A subset of kinds of people that refuse to get vaccinated are the kind of people that would just make up stories in their own head about how they already got it because they had the sniffles in January 2020 and that mild case means they're alpha. I know at least one person that is precisely this stereotype, and probably two, but the second one got vaccinated.

walterbell 5y ago
> will just say "oh yea, I think I already had it". In large urban areas where cities are providing free PCR testing on street corners, there is a large body of evidence on which assessments can be made. Millions of positive PCR test results are currently in centralized databases. The UK's weekly health surveillance report tracks prior infections and reinfections.
- jtbayly 5y ago
  And a lot of people who know they had it because they tested positive. Or are we now going to walk back the test results and claim that they can’t be trusted after forcing people to do all sorts of difficult things because the test said they have Covid?
- tehjoker 5y ago
  That's a fair point, but based on the papers I've read the post-infection immune response is weaker. Positive PCR will also identify asymptomatic people, who are the most likely to not develop useful antibodies.
  - walterbell 5y ago
    > based on the papers I've read the post-infection immune response is weaker Please provide a citation for one of these papers. > Positive PCR will also identify asymptomatic people, who are the most likely to not develop useful antibodies.* UK health data showed in 2021 that Delta/Apha Covid reinfections were in the range of 0.1% and 1%. Blood serum antibodies are one small component of a very complex array of immune system defenses. If someone is asymptomatic (NOTE: near-ideal scenario for the benefit claimed by vaccines, i.e. reduction of symptoms), one scenario is that their immune system mounted a strong nasal/mucosal response in the upper respiratory system, based on exposure to prior coronaviruses. So not only did they defeat Covid the first time, but their immune system has now been upgraded even further against future Covid-and-neighboring threats.
    - tehjoker 5y ago
      https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article > one scenario is that their immune system mounted a strong nasal/mucosal response in the upper respiratory system, based on exposure to prior coronaviruses. Another scenario is they got a small dose and their innate immune system worked. A bigger dose would just restart the process from scratch. I'm not claiming the vaccine is a miracle cure, but it's layer #1 of a defense in depth strategy. In any case, studies have shown infection + vaccine is even better.
      - walterbell 5y ago
        > but it's layer #1 of a defense in depth strategy It's literally not: Layer 1 defense for an airborne respiratory virus is the upper respiratory system with nasal/mucosal immunity. Vaccines delivered by injection to the deltoid muscle provide blood/serum defenses, we could call that "Layer 2", defending against whatever makes it past Layer 1.

walterbell 5y ago

> will just say "oh yea, I think I already had it". In large urban areas where cities are providing free PCR testing on street corners, there is a large body of evidence on which assessments can be made. Millions of positive PCR test results are currently in centralized databases. The UK's weekly health surveillance report tracks prior infections and reinfections.

jtbayly 5y ago
And a lot of people who know they had it because they tested positive. Or are we now going to walk back the test results and claim that they can’t be trusted after forcing people to do all sorts of difficult things because the test said they have Covid?
tehjoker 5y ago
That's a fair point, but based on the papers I've read the post-infection immune response is weaker. Positive PCR will also identify asymptomatic people, who are the most likely to not develop useful antibodies.
- walterbell 5y ago
  > based on the papers I've read the post-infection immune response is weaker Please provide a citation for one of these papers. > Positive PCR will also identify asymptomatic people, who are the most likely to not develop useful antibodies.* UK health data showed in 2021 that Delta/Apha Covid reinfections were in the range of 0.1% and 1%. Blood serum antibodies are one small component of a very complex array of immune system defenses. If someone is asymptomatic (NOTE: near-ideal scenario for the benefit claimed by vaccines, i.e. reduction of symptoms), one scenario is that their immune system mounted a strong nasal/mucosal response in the upper respiratory system, based on exposure to prior coronaviruses. So not only did they defeat Covid the first time, but their immune system has now been upgraded even further against future Covid-and-neighboring threats.
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article > one scenario is that their immune system mounted a strong nasal/mucosal response in the upper respiratory system, based on exposure to prior coronaviruses. Another scenario is they got a small dose and their innate immune system worked. A bigger dose would just restart the process from scratch. I'm not claiming the vaccine is a miracle cure, but it's layer #1 of a defense in depth strategy. In any case, studies have shown infection + vaccine is even better.
    - walterbell 5y ago
      > but it's layer #1 of a defense in depth strategy It's literally not: Layer 1 defense for an airborne respiratory virus is the upper respiratory system with nasal/mucosal immunity. Vaccines delivered by injection to the deltoid muscle provide blood/serum defenses, we could call that "Layer 2", defending against whatever makes it past Layer 1.