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Americans Will Need to Register to Travel to Europe in 2023
- CaliforniaKarl 5y agoBefore any of my fellow citizens complain, take note: > This new system should not put American noses out of joint. The United States Customs and Border Protection has run a similar visa-waiver program since 2008, called the Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA). The U.S. visa-waiver program requires citizens from 40 countries in Europe and elsewhere to apply online for a visa waiver and pay $14 to enter the U.S. for short stays of less than 90 days.
- piceas 5y agoAnd don't let your parents/those willing to trust seach engines click on any official looking link they see. They might pay usd75 for a third party to 'help' make the application. Of those I know who have fallen for it most were able to get their money back. E.g. (not the first link for me but still up there on duckduckgo) "https://estaapplication.com.au https://estaapplication.com.au Official USA ESTA Application for UK & Australian Citizens ..."
- tallanvor 5y agoI complained to my senator when they created ESTA, not that it did any good. As much as I agree turnabout is fair play, I still want to see fewer barriers to travel, not more of them.
- midasuni 5y agoWhat’s hilarious about ESTa is that part of the fee is a “tourism tax” to attract more tourists. Want to attract more people- don’t put in silly things like esta.
- llampx 5y agoOn the other hand, choosing where to go is an emotional argument. By the time someone has made the decision to go to the US because of advertising and marketing, the fee for ESTA or a visa are secondary concerns. Even more so if the decision maker and the accountant are not the same person, as can happen in families.
- Fnoord 5y agoBefore I could enter USA as EU citizen, I had to register via VWP in 2005 and 2006, got interviewed/screened (including my fingerprints taken) by airline as well as border control (fingerprints only by border control). As part of VWP, I had to state I did not take part in WWII on the Axis side, etc etc (I was born in the 80s...). I'm not sure what the requirements of Americans entering Europe were or are, can't imagine they were/are as strict. Going back, guy looked at my face 2 times, and I was allowed in. Its nice living in a free country like The Netherlands, I thought. And yes, we did have terrorism threat back then (Muslim extremists).
- fontenot-jon 5y ago
- walterbell 5y agohttps://etias.com/what-is-etias/who-needs-etias https://etias.com/what-is-etias/who-needs-etias > With the arrival of ETIAS expected in 2023, passport holders of 59 of the 62 countries that currently travel visa-free, will require an ETIAS waiver to travel to Europe for the purposes of tourism, business, or transit for a 90 days stay in any 180-day period. Which three countries will be visa-free and ETIAS-free?
- josephcsible 5y agohttps://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/schengen-border-controls/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/schengen-bor... says "ETIAS and the entry/exit system do not apply to nationals of Andorra, Monaco and San Marino and holders of a passport issued by the Vatican City State or the Holy See". Those are all microstates entirely surrounded by other countries that are part of the Schengen area.
- eCa 5y agoThey are also airport-less, making it ... challenging to visit them without going through those neighboring countries.
- Hamuko 5y agoMonaco isn't landlocked though.
- bryanrasmussen 5y agoOk, so, The Great Race 2023 a sporting program where competitors try to get into as many of these non-schengen countries in Europe without requiring ETIAS to do so. Can one balloon across a country without requiring a passport?
- Someone 5y agoI guess a diplomatic passport would make you immune from requiring ETIAS. Those can more or less be bought from some countries (e.g. from the USA. Heavily sponsor a president’s election and before you know it you’re ambassador in some European country) Alternatively, apply for asylum in one of the countries and start traveling to other EU countries (that’s not allowed, but not because it requires ETIAS, I think) Also, parachuting in is relatively easy, but how do you get out?
- durnygbur 5y ago
- gotorazor 5y agoSo this is basically reciprocity. The American Department of Homeland Security has a similar program for Europeans. https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov
- sofixa 5y agoKind of, but not entirely. Some EU countries' citizens are excluded from the US ESTA ( Bulgaria, Romania) and need to apply for a visa with ridiculous questions ( list all countries you've visited in the last 5 years (if you live in the EU that's a stupid question, i had to go through my Google Maps history to have the full list), and crazy stuff like "are you coming to prostitute yourself in the US") and in-person interviews at an American embassy. There's no reciprocity for that kind of special treatment. Edited to add: and of course they request fingerprints and photos ( of course in a special format nobody else uses). I'm still pissed i had to give up that information and it ended up for nothing ( i didn't end up visiting the US, and now i no longer need that visa)
- maerqin 5y agoThe most stupid question is when they ask you if you are a terrorist or plan a terrorist attack in America. Even if someone would be a terrorist, why would someone give an honest answer to this question.
- xxs 5y agoSo they get you for lying on the application - which can be criminal, even if they won't have proof the actual act. It's quite a standard practice.
- dietr1ch 5y agoYou'd figure they can get them for terrorists. It's crazy how law-oriented people are in the US. I'm sure they don't do bad things only because It iS ThE LaW, not because they are bad.
- 5y ago
- jhoechtl 5y agoEuropeans need to register since ... many years through ESTA. So what?
- mahkeiro 5y agoAnd the ESTA form (which is a Visa in all but name, just more automated), is becoming more dystopian year after year…
- Joeri 5y agoMy favorite question has been on there since the beginning though. Do you seek to engage in or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities, espionage, sabotage, or genocide? I am always tempted by the imp of the perverse to answer yes. That genocide just sounds so inviting.
- jrumbut 5y agoTo be fair, we have had a decades long problem with European genocide-doers settling in the US. There have been regular deportations of former nazis up until just a few years ago. There must be tens or hundreds of thousands of Europeans who have done terrorism/genocide/espionage earlier in their life and are now reintegrated into society to the point that they might want to visit Disney World. May as well ask.
- RealStickman_ 5y agoExcept when they had the knowledge to work in one of several super secret government research programs.
- TheCoelacanth 5y agoMaybe that explains the why the question is there. They're just pre-qualifying leads for their recruiters.
- midasuni 5y ago
- pcurve 5y ago"Prospective visitors will need to complete an online application and a €7 fee will be required from those between ages 18 and 70.[10] The system is expected to process the vast majority of applications automatically by searching in electronic databases and provide an immediate response, but in some limited cases it may take up to 30 days.[11][2] If approved, the authorisation will be valid for three years or until the expiry date of the travel document if earlier.[2]" A short video about the reasons (I'm not really convinced) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orrBJiXAcSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orrBJiXAcSU
- kergonath 5y agoIt sounds like a tit for tat response to ESTA, to be honest. I’m not really convinced either (as a European).
- hef19898 5y agoNot that I have a problem with that.
- ithkuil 5y agoIf that's just a response it took quite some time to come. Perhaps it's a reflection of the weakening of the US power. Perhaps it will finally have normal relationships with other countries?
- kergonath 5y ago> If that's just a response it took quite some time to come. The commission is a slow moving machine. > Perhaps it's a reflection of the weakening of the US power. I don’t think, in this instance. This applies to almost all countries.
- throw3838 5y agoSeems fair. I am EU citizen, can go to US visa free, but ESTA is required. It should be the same from the other side. And US limits countries I can visit. Iran is great holiday destination, but after visit I would need US visa.
- ido 5y agoWhat? You need a US visa to visit Iran as a European?
- jkaplowitz 5y agoNo. Foreign nationals from countries (including most of Europe) that normally have access to the US through the Visa Waiver Program and ESTA lose that access if they visit Iran or a few other countries. They thereafter need to go through the full US visa application process if they want to go to the US.
- hef19898 5y agoOne of the cases where at least in Germany you can get a second passport without problems. Another example would be travel to Israel and Arabian countries.
- detaro 5y agoStill requires you to lie on the ESTA form, which is not necessarily a good idea. (i.e. if you lie and get caught, that's worse than going through the visa process)
- hef19898 5y agoSure, simple answer: don't carry both passports at the same time. Pretty sure Iran (an the other countries on the US blacklist) don't exchange travel information with the US.
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- 88840-8855 5y agoAbsolutely finally. Why should a European take off their pants when traveling to the US, go through rude and racist immigration and Americans can easily enter the EU? Never understood that. I want at least the same treatment for them, incl. pre checks, Information requests like social media accounts, pre registrations and a fee.
- jokethrowaway 5y agoIf you're against US immigration process, you shouldn't be happy the same is happening to Europe. We're just becoming one big dystopia. When are people going to realise that?
- aahortwwy 5y agoYeah, the whole "this sucks; it should apply to everyone" mindset never made sense to me...
- plafl 5y agoIt makes it easier to gather support to change the situation. Good luck if you are in the minority with the problem.
- satellite2 5y agoOP didn't state they were happy. But reciprocity might be the basis to develop fair relationship. Otherwise how would Americans realize their behavior is problematic?
- gregoryl 5y agoI mean, Americans haven't realised yet, I doubt that will change.
- ionicgiraffe 5y agoIf Europeans had some power on the immigration decisions of the US it would be stupid to make it worse for others when you could just accept it to be worse only for yourself. On the other hand, a lot of people that have never experienced something do not even realize that that problem even exists or is real. Maybe experiencing a little bit of difficulty will enrich the vision of those. Still, I think the point should be that with this pre-approvals you have end up with an easier immigration process and less worries for both sides (less time at immigration and not being turned down in the last moment).
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- numlock86 5y agoSo ETIAS is like ESTA but the other way around? Seems good to me.
- Ekaros 5y agoI hope we have sense to demand the devices and account passwords at the border. Just to ensure are critical data can be harvested from these potential terrorists.
- EiZei 5y agoThere's only been two places so far where I have had to provide my biometric data at the border: Cambodia and the United States.
- f6v 5y agoI guess the difference between Europe and the EU is too subtle for many.
- smnrchrds 5y agoIt's not EU, it's Schengen. So it includes non-EU Schengen area countries like Switzerland, and does not include EU non-Schengen area countries like Ireland.
- sofixa 5y agoIt's also the meaning that's starting to shift - for many in France "Europe" means the EU, not the continent. Like the Brits who talk about "us and Europe".
- fy20 5y agoYesterday I passed passport control at Amsterdam airport and was told by the attendant "European passports" should use the automated kiosks. I queued and got to the machine, and after scanning my passport it told me I need to queue again in the "non EU" line. Lesson learnt.
- martopix 5y agoAmericans are literally called Americans despite the fact that America is two vast continents, and yet this whole thread is full of people complaining of this article saying "Europe" instead of "Schengen area". In the same way, the title should say "US citizens" then?
- blitzar 5y agoIts a purely selfless act by citizens from outside of the americas. Heads would explode if Americans realised that Mexicans to Chilleans were also American.
- LAC-Tech 5y agoMisleading headline: ETIAS registration will be necessary to enter Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland. The same goes for trips to the microstates of Andorra, Monaco, San Marino and Vatican City. Four countries — Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania — are not Schengen countries yet but are in the process of joining. Once they are admitted to the zone, they will require travelers to have an ETIAS authorization, too. This is a fairly large chunk of Europe, but it is not the entirety of Europe. Notably it excludes the European nations of Ireland, the UK, Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia, Moldova, most of the Balkans...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- mellavora 5y ago> This is a fairly large chunk of Europe, but it is not the entirety of Europe. Notably it excludes the European nations of Ireland, the UK, Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia, Moldova, most of the Balkans... I think they call it "Schengen-land", named after an obscure town in Luxembourg. Didn't realize that Russia was a part of Europe. I thought the dream was the opposite, to make Europe a part of Russia.
- Someone 5y ago“Schengen area”, after the treaty to create it, which was signed in the Luxembourg town (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area)
- LAC-Tech 5y agoRussia is about 40% of Europes land mass.
- pintxo 5y agoAnd 75% of the Russian population lives in Europe. But then 77% of Russian territory is considered to be on the Asian continent. And Pluto (the former planet) has about the same surface area as Russia.
- jsiaajdsdaa 5y agoImagine destroying an industry (travel), peoples livelihoods (tourism), and one of the major hallmarks of human experience (seeing the world) all because you want power over peoples lives. This benefits NO ONE. EDIT: And before anyone says it, the American system needs to be removed too!
- mod50ack 5y agoAlthough you may be against this plan, objectively we know that it will not destroy any of those things. It didn't destroy them in the United States, which continues to welcome many tourists with almost the same system.
- elcomet 5y agoBut reducing airplane travel to help saving the planet a little bit.
- techie128 5y agoInteresting take. Do you know that a vast majority of the world is required to obtain a visa to the US & Europe? Obtaining a visa is a horribly long, painful, expensive and sometimes humiliating process. The visa fees for a US visitor visa are $190. What do you think about that?
- xtracto 5y ago> Obtaining a visa is a horribly long, painful, expensive and sometimes humiliating process. Indeed, as someone who lost a finger when I was a kid, it is humiliating for me every time I go through the US border and the officers order me to place my fingers for "fingerprinting". Particularly when they ask me "WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU". I hate traveling to the US and my problem is that I'm stuck on this side of the Atlantic. When I was living in Europe it was a pleasure to travel between countries. They don't assume you are a criminal, and the border officers are more intelligent/educated in Europe (even the ones in places like Bulgaria were cool).
- jsiaajdsdaa 5y agoMy wife is Chinese. My father is Chilean. I added a specific section in my comment saying the USA needs to remove its policies too. Thus, why would you comment as such? Why would you assume that I support visas and restrictions, when I have CLEARLY expressed the EXACT OPPOSITE opinion?
- transitory_pce 5y agoDelightful. Let’s take the reciprocity one step further: send a few travellers back from the airport on a whim and refer to them as “illegals” while doing it.
- dang 5y agoCould you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly, and we ban that sort of account, because we're trying for a different sort of forum here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- transitory_pce 5y ago@dang i was speaking from experience. It happened to me. Including the part where they call you an "Illegal" and treat you like garbage, for a technicality that was later considered their fault. I might make it sound frivolous but let me assure you its a very grievous injustice that people are subject to. And its worthing bringing to light. And it happens way more often than you would like to think. Google it.
- dang 5y agoSure, I believe you and have no quarrel with what you're saying here. The problem is that you didn't include any of that information in the GP comment, so there was no way to disambiguate it from garden-variety flamebait. Since that's internet default when it comes to inflammatory topics, that's what a comment like the GP will pattern-match to, unless you explicitly disambiguate it (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=disambiguate%20burden%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...). The fact that your comment also added snark made this even more likely, as well as the fact that you've been posting unsubstantive and flamebait comments already.
- refurb 5y agoRather that getting into some random argument about which country is worse because of their visa policies, I'd ask another question: Why have countries (US, Canada, now EU) moved to ESTA-like systems even for countries that are typically "low risk"? I assume because the new system allows for a more in-depth background check and the pressure of immigration to make a decision in-real time at the border is eliminated. It's basically splitting the difference between inspection on arrival and forcing people to interview at consulates. But is there anything more than that? To be honest, it seems a bit like overkill for any country to "pre-screen" all arrivals from what seems like very low risk countries. No doubt there is some DHS policy paper that explains all this.
- midasuni 5y agoWhat’s odd is that you still have to provide a ton of information via your airline when you do go to the US, pretty much everything you provide with Esta anyway.
- jen729w 5y agoCan we use this as a place to tell stories about how travel was better ‘back in the day’? Here’s mine. Back in the late 90s/early 00s I worked for the British Council. I travelled the world with a pack of Windows NT 4.0 CDs upgrading their servers. I was in my early 20s. They flew us Business. It was quite a thing. I’ll never stop appreciating how lucky I was, it was the time of my life. This was pre-9/11, so security was … lax? I remember there being two lines at Heathrow: British, and not. (There were probably three: British, EU, other. Anyway.) So you’d fly in from some really random place – I mean Kosovo, Ukraine, Nigeria, Colombia – and you’d walk through the ‘British’ line. You’d get to the guy checking passports and, I shit you not, he’d have his feet up on the desk and he’d be reading The Sun. (Terrible tabloid newspaper.) Scores of British people would walk down that corridor holding their passports up, photo page presented, three abreast, and the guy would occasionally look up from the paper to check nothing too untoward was going on. Good times.
- brotheradam 5y agoHad similar experiences back then. I once flew from San Francisco to Frankfurt, and we were stopped by security because my brother had handcuffs in his baggage. (toys from Alcatraz sold as Souvenirs, but they were made of metal and looked quite real). Can you imagine what would happen today if security found handcuffs in your bags at the air port? Back then, they smiled and put them back after my brother explained they were just toys. Unbelievable today.
- hulitu 5y ago> Can you imagine what would happen today if security found handcuffs in your bags at the air port? Back then, they smiled and put them back after my brother explained they were just toys. Unbelievable today. So you are trying to tell us not to take our sex toys to the airport. The world just got thougher.
- irrational 5y agoI’d just say I’m going to visit my girlfriend and she is going to use them on me. [Wink]
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- Proven 5y ago