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True. The problem is that when ratios are 1:30 (teacher:student) or sometimes even higher, it is hard for teachers to influence individual kids rather than spen

True. The problem is that when ratios are 1:30 (teacher:student) or sometimes even higher, it is hard for teachers to influence individual kids rather than spending all their time playing fire-fighter to a handful of problem students (often with pre-existing issues from home).

triedandtrue5 5y ago
Can you please point me to an under-performing school with that ratio? In my experience, the under-performing schools receive between 50% and 100% percent more funding than high performing schools and have very low teacher student ratios. Thanks.
- Someone1234 5y ago
  Mississippi is one of the worst performing states in the US (by multiple metrics[0]), to quote state policy (Mississippi Code Ann. Section 37-151-77): > 28.3 Student teacher ratios do not exceed 30 to 1 in self-contained classes serving grades 5-8. {MS Code 37-151-77} A one-year waiver may be requested for classes that do not exceed more than two (2) students beyond the allowable student teacher ratio. And: > 28.4 Student teacher ratios do not exceed 33 to 1 in departmentalized academic core classes serving grades 5-12. {MS Code 37-151-77} A one-year waiver may be requested for classes that do not exceed more than two (2) students beyond the allowable student teacher ratio. [0] https://www.gulflive.com/news/2019/07/mississippis-school-systems-remain-among-nations-worst.html https://www.gulflive.com/news/2019/07/mississippis-school-sy... [1] Jackson Public School District documentation which is a succinct list of State limits: https://www.jackson.k12.ms.us/cms/lib/MS01910533/Centricity/domain/964/board_policies_approved/i/iee_procedures.pdf https://www.jackson.k12.ms.us/cms/lib/MS01910533/Centricity/...
  - triedandtrue5 5y ago
    Mississippi is a poor state, but within Mississippi, do the better performing schools receive more funding?
  - SamReidHughes 5y ago
    White 8th graders in Mississippi average the same in mathematics testing as white 8th graders in Vermont or New Hampshire. (In reading they're 1 point behind.) Mississippi's average is only low because they have a large black population, and they do better than black kids in Arkansas, Louisiana, and Alabama, but worse than Tennessee and Georgia. You can see here: https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/mathematics/states/groups/?grade=8 https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/mathematics/states/groups/...
fmajid 5y ago
Positive impact is hard, but there are certainly terrible teachers who have a strong negative impact but are sheltered by teachers' unions. The best case is places like New York that have the notorious "rubber rooms" where they are exiled so at least they can do no further harm to students, while remaining a drain on public finances. The problem is you can't use data science to find them. Any metric can and will be gamed. It requires a qualitative assessment, and also giving parents more power in the system, since they are the ones most aligned with the interests of students.
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  Parents more power in the system is a bit of a double edged sword. For every story about a teacher doing poorly teachers often have them of parents refusing to believe that their child could ever do anything wrong, like cheating or bullying behavior.

triedandtrue5 5y ago

Can you please point me to an under-performing school with that ratio? In my experience, the under-performing schools receive between 50% and 100% percent more funding than high performing schools and have very low teacher student ratios. Thanks.

Someone1234 5y ago
Mississippi is one of the worst performing states in the US (by multiple metrics[0]), to quote state policy (Mississippi Code Ann. Section 37-151-77): > 28.3 Student teacher ratios do not exceed 30 to 1 in self-contained classes serving grades 5-8. {MS Code 37-151-77} A one-year waiver may be requested for classes that do not exceed more than two (2) students beyond the allowable student teacher ratio. And: > 28.4 Student teacher ratios do not exceed 33 to 1 in departmentalized academic core classes serving grades 5-12. {MS Code 37-151-77} A one-year waiver may be requested for classes that do not exceed more than two (2) students beyond the allowable student teacher ratio. [0] https://www.gulflive.com/news/2019/07/mississippis-school-systems-remain-among-nations-worst.html https://www.gulflive.com/news/2019/07/mississippis-school-sy... [1] Jackson Public School District documentation which is a succinct list of State limits: https://www.jackson.k12.ms.us/cms/lib/MS01910533/Centricity/domain/964/board_policies_approved/i/iee_procedures.pdf https://www.jackson.k12.ms.us/cms/lib/MS01910533/Centricity/...
- triedandtrue5 5y ago
  Mississippi is a poor state, but within Mississippi, do the better performing schools receive more funding?
- SamReidHughes 5y ago
  White 8th graders in Mississippi average the same in mathematics testing as white 8th graders in Vermont or New Hampshire. (In reading they're 1 point behind.) Mississippi's average is only low because they have a large black population, and they do better than black kids in Arkansas, Louisiana, and Alabama, but worse than Tennessee and Georgia. You can see here: https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/mathematics/states/groups/?grade=8 https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/mathematics/states/groups/...

fmajid 5y ago

Positive impact is hard, but there are certainly terrible teachers who have a strong negative impact but are sheltered by teachers' unions. The best case is places like New York that have the notorious "rubber rooms" where they are exiled so at least they can do no further harm to students, while remaining a drain on public finances. The problem is you can't use data science to find them. Any metric can and will be gamed. It requires a qualitative assessment, and also giving parents more power in the system, since they are the ones most aligned with the interests of students.

bobthepanda 5y ago
Parents more power in the system is a bit of a double edged sword. For every story about a teacher doing poorly teachers often have them of parents refusing to believe that their child could ever do anything wrong, like cheating or bullying behavior.