7 ms·

Spielberg has said a few times that it is hard for him to raise money for projects. Other big names have said the same thing. Studios want superhero movies or

by AmVess 5y ago

Spielberg has said a few times that it is hard for him to raise money for projects. Other big names have said the same thing. Studios want superhero movies or reboots and nothing else.

echelon 5y ago
Superhero movies are the current optima in (audience appetite, profit, time to delivery, box office saturation / crowding out competition). It makes business sense, it just sucks for those trying to do something different, as it sucks the money out of the system. Opportunity cost favors capes. Hollywood is going to change dramatically over the next few decades as more projects move to post production rendering pipelines and the entire film process gets upended. Maybe this will provide much needed air to those seeking to do new and unusual things.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  The international market is the main reason. These type of movies play well globally and are easily understood compared to dialogue heavy / complex story / local knowledge required stories.
  - cycomanic 5y ago
    I'd like to see some statistics for that. IIRC most of the big marvel/dc comic movies did significantly better in the US than outside. It sort of makes sense as well, those comic books were not as big for the generation that is 30+ now in those other countries. The too complex dialogue argument also doesn't really make sense considering that movies get translated in the biggest overseas markets.
    - jibe 5y ago
      Stats: https://www.boxofficepro.com/box-office-rewind-a-history-of-the-marvel-cinematic-universe-so-far/ https://www.boxofficepro.com/box-office-rewind-a-history-of-... Marvel films make most of their money internationally, the bigger the film, the bigger the foreign share. E.g. Infinity War $357.1 million domestically and $1.2 billion worldwide.
    - kevinmchugh 5y ago
      Comic books have little to do with it. Guardians of the Galaxy never sold many books, and only to pretty hardcore fans.
    - InitialLastName 5y ago
      > The too complex dialogue argument also doesn't really make sense considering that movies get translated in the biggest overseas markets. The argument is that it's much easier to get plot, jokes, and moderate character development across in translation (and more convincing to dub!) with a base script that uses simpler English.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > as more projects move to post production rendering pipelines I don't understand - what are they currently doing if not rendering in post-production?
  - e4e78a06 5y ago
    Not so sure about post-production rendering, if anything movies are moving to real-time rendered CGI environments [1]. Unreal/Epic have been a big player in this space. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUnxzVOs3rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUnxzVOs3rk
    - germinalphrase 5y ago
      It’s unclear to me why that transition would mean that writers/directors/storytellers would win. Lower costs make creative risks more viable?
      - echelon 5y ago
        Eventually teenage kids will be making Star Wars at home. Or Star Wars meets Scarface. GPUs will surpass 2010's Pixar. This, coupled with real time motion capture and photogrammetry, will enable more creativity than ever before from more people than have ever been involved. A democratization that even Disney won't be able to counter. But to directly answer your question, the process of writing moves off the text editor and directly into the production fold. Changes can be made dynamically or even in post. We'll see tools for graphical story arcs, character development radar charts, backstories, and more as these things all morph into real time activities.
        germinalphrase 5y ago
        I believe it. That’s wonderful. Though I’m teaching now - in a previous life, I was a Local 600 2nd AC. The storytelling industry fascinates me, but I would love to see user generated, interactive fiction become prominent. All the better if talent can be the central stakeholder. Unreal/Epic got a shout out above. Can you point out anyone else who is working seriously in the space? That’s exciting.
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  Movie theatres in the Netflix era need spectacular and bombastic films in order to draw a crowd. The kind of stuff that doesn't translate well on a 55 inch TV.
  - thirdsun 5y ago
    Dune is such a movie and yet Villeneuve basically had to beg and wait for the studio to greenlight Part II. This should have been shot back to back as it's simply an unfinished film in its current form.
    - approxim8ion 5y ago
      > had to beg and wait It was renewed within a month of release. This is a franchise where individual movies cost $150m+ to make. I can see why a studio wouldn't be willing to greenlight all of it at one go, especially given how the previous adaptation attempt at the same franchise was not received well.
mhh__ 5y ago
Superhero movies aren't even cheap, is the sad thing. Dune cost less than Black Widow to make, and that's a fairly wide-scope space opera with lots of practical effects making up large amounts of the movie.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  Or they were waiting for a hero with power to fix things. Superhero films have confused the ideas of what heroes and power are.
- scarface74 5y ago
  Two thoughts. 1. If we know what a government can do when it’s not on “your side” whichever your side is, then why do most people on HN always want the “government to pass a law to do $x to private businesses” giving the government more power? 2. Exactly what does “being American mean”? I bet you dollars to donuts when you talk to your parents about the good old days, the story is different than talking to my parents who grew up in the segregated south.
  - JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
    For me being American means getting away from the culture that caused injustices in the South and moving towards a kinder future for everyone. And then the villain tried to take us back there. But democracy prevailed and for that I am hopeful. The point of my comment was that all we had were superhero movies talking about right and wrong but it was so silly and childish and on the surface that it didn't do the real work that great movies do of making people examine what is really good and what is evil.
    - scarface74 5y ago
      You mean the same culture where statistically to this day minorities get harsher sentences for the same crime than non minorities and that the “War on Drugs” became the “War on Black People” and when drugs started affecting rural America it became a “disease” that needs “treatment” and not “caused by moral failings” like it was in the “inner city”. Even the idea that the crack got harsher punishment than the same amount of cocaine is evidence that not much has changed. It’s not a Republican vs Democratic thing. The Clintons and Biden were big proponents of the “War on Crime” and it was disproportionately aimed at minorities. I have no idea why criminal justice reform didn’t gain more traction. The mainstream Republicans on the national level supported it as well as Democrats - even up to Trump before.
ayngg 5y ago
Streaming has hollowed out the non-blockbuster market, so studios need to quite literally go big or go home. Going big means the movie needs to have spectacle that brings people to the theater, which generally means huge cgi budgets that tv series could never replicate on a per frame basis. Superhero movies (and remakes) are exploiting preexisting social capital of franchises to be as successful as they are, otherwise it is really difficult to justify dropping hundreds of millions of dollars on producing and marketing a blockbuster spectacle nobody has ever heard of when marvel and other studios are dropping movies with familiar and popular IP constantly.
BurningFrog 5y ago
Studios want profit. When only superheroes or reboots are profitable, that's what they'll finance. Not sure if Netflix and the other streamers work differently.
- rhino369 5y ago
  >Not sure if Netflix and the other streamers work differently. Right now they work differently. They are throwing around big money for the middle tier budget movie--not blockbusters and not small indies. But all it takes is for the data to suggest that its better to make 5 Red Notices than 10 middle budge adult movies and they'll just stop making them.

by AmVess 5y ago

Spielberg has said a few times that it is hard for him to raise money for projects. Other big names have said the same thing. Studios want superhero movies or reboots and nothing else.

echelon 5y ago

Superhero movies are the current optima in (audience appetite, profit, time to delivery, box office saturation / crowding out competition). It makes business sense, it just sucks for those trying to do something different, as it sucks the money out of the system. Opportunity cost favors capes. Hollywood is going to change dramatically over the next few decades as more projects move to post production rendering pipelines and the entire film process gets upended. Maybe this will provide much needed air to those seeking to do new and unusual things.

ipaddr 5y ago
The international market is the main reason. These type of movies play well globally and are easily understood compared to dialogue heavy / complex story / local knowledge required stories.
- cycomanic 5y ago
  I'd like to see some statistics for that. IIRC most of the big marvel/dc comic movies did significantly better in the US than outside. It sort of makes sense as well, those comic books were not as big for the generation that is 30+ now in those other countries. The too complex dialogue argument also doesn't really make sense considering that movies get translated in the biggest overseas markets.
  - jibe 5y ago
    Stats: https://www.boxofficepro.com/box-office-rewind-a-history-of-the-marvel-cinematic-universe-so-far/ https://www.boxofficepro.com/box-office-rewind-a-history-of-... Marvel films make most of their money internationally, the bigger the film, the bigger the foreign share. E.g. Infinity War $357.1 million domestically and $1.2 billion worldwide.
  - kevinmchugh 5y ago
    Comic books have little to do with it. Guardians of the Galaxy never sold many books, and only to pretty hardcore fans.
  - InitialLastName 5y ago
    > The too complex dialogue argument also doesn't really make sense considering that movies get translated in the biggest overseas markets. The argument is that it's much easier to get plot, jokes, and moderate character development across in translation (and more convincing to dub!) with a base script that uses simpler English.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> as more projects move to post production rendering pipelines I don't understand - what are they currently doing if not rendering in post-production?
- e4e78a06 5y ago
  Not so sure about post-production rendering, if anything movies are moving to real-time rendered CGI environments [1]. Unreal/Epic have been a big player in this space. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUnxzVOs3rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUnxzVOs3rk
  - germinalphrase 5y ago
    It’s unclear to me why that transition would mean that writers/directors/storytellers would win. Lower costs make creative risks more viable?
    - echelon 5y ago
      Eventually teenage kids will be making Star Wars at home. Or Star Wars meets Scarface. GPUs will surpass 2010's Pixar. This, coupled with real time motion capture and photogrammetry, will enable more creativity than ever before from more people than have ever been involved. A democratization that even Disney won't be able to counter. But to directly answer your question, the process of writing moves off the text editor and directly into the production fold. Changes can be made dynamically or even in post. We'll see tools for graphical story arcs, character development radar charts, backstories, and more as these things all morph into real time activities.
      - germinalphrase 5y ago
        I believe it. That’s wonderful. Though I’m teaching now - in a previous life, I was a Local 600 2nd AC. The storytelling industry fascinates me, but I would love to see user generated, interactive fiction become prominent. All the better if talent can be the central stakeholder. Unreal/Epic got a shout out above. Can you point out anyone else who is working seriously in the space? That’s exciting.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Movie theatres in the Netflix era need spectacular and bombastic films in order to draw a crowd. The kind of stuff that doesn't translate well on a 55 inch TV.
- thirdsun 5y ago
  Dune is such a movie and yet Villeneuve basically had to beg and wait for the studio to greenlight Part II. This should have been shot back to back as it's simply an unfinished film in its current form.
  - approxim8ion 5y ago
    > had to beg and wait It was renewed within a month of release. This is a franchise where individual movies cost $150m+ to make. I can see why a studio wouldn't be willing to greenlight all of it at one go, especially given how the previous adaptation attempt at the same franchise was not received well.

mhh__ 5y ago

Superhero movies aren't even cheap, is the sad thing. Dune cost less than Black Widow to make, and that's a fairly wide-scope space opera with lots of practical effects making up large amounts of the movie.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
SyzygistSix 5y ago
Or they were waiting for a hero with power to fix things. Superhero films have confused the ideas of what heroes and power are.
scarface74 5y ago
Two thoughts. 1. If we know what a government can do when it’s not on “your side” whichever your side is, then why do most people on HN always want the “government to pass a law to do $x to private businesses” giving the government more power? 2. Exactly what does “being American mean”? I bet you dollars to donuts when you talk to your parents about the good old days, the story is different than talking to my parents who grew up in the segregated south.
- JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
  For me being American means getting away from the culture that caused injustices in the South and moving towards a kinder future for everyone. And then the villain tried to take us back there. But democracy prevailed and for that I am hopeful. The point of my comment was that all we had were superhero movies talking about right and wrong but it was so silly and childish and on the surface that it didn't do the real work that great movies do of making people examine what is really good and what is evil.
  - scarface74 5y ago
    You mean the same culture where statistically to this day minorities get harsher sentences for the same crime than non minorities and that the “War on Drugs” became the “War on Black People” and when drugs started affecting rural America it became a “disease” that needs “treatment” and not “caused by moral failings” like it was in the “inner city”. Even the idea that the crack got harsher punishment than the same amount of cocaine is evidence that not much has changed. It’s not a Republican vs Democratic thing. The Clintons and Biden were big proponents of the “War on Crime” and it was disproportionately aimed at minorities. I have no idea why criminal justice reform didn’t gain more traction. The mainstream Republicans on the national level supported it as well as Democrats - even up to Trump before.

ayngg 5y ago

Streaming has hollowed out the non-blockbuster market, so studios need to quite literally go big or go home. Going big means the movie needs to have spectacle that brings people to the theater, which generally means huge cgi budgets that tv series could never replicate on a per frame basis. Superhero movies (and remakes) are exploiting preexisting social capital of franchises to be as successful as they are, otherwise it is really difficult to justify dropping hundreds of millions of dollars on producing and marketing a blockbuster spectacle nobody has ever heard of when marvel and other studios are dropping movies with familiar and popular IP constantly.

BurningFrog 5y ago

Studios want profit. When only superheroes or reboots are profitable, that's what they'll finance. Not sure if Netflix and the other streamers work differently.

rhino369 5y ago
>Not sure if Netflix and the other streamers work differently. Right now they work differently. They are throwing around big money for the middle tier budget movie--not blockbusters and not small indies. But all it takes is for the data to suggest that its better to make 5 Red Notices than 10 middle budge adult movies and they'll just stop making them.