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Is this actually true? Are CEOs lamenting their engineering labor costs like this? I feel like by now the cost of engineering labor has demonstrated its value

Is this actually true? Are CEOs lamenting their engineering labor costs like this? I feel like by now the cost of engineering labor has demonstrated its value over and over again, to the point where most CEOs accept the cost of engineering is more or less a shared expense across competition, and not really something to be reduced.

MattGaiser 5y ago
Depends on where. Hearing the complaining openly at some companies. My former employer openly called American engineering salaries too high during all hands.
Sytten 5y ago
Well we have a couple of particularly vocal CEO here (Quebec, Canada) that are always moaning (sometimes on national television) about how they cannot find talent or that gaming companies "steal their talents". All the while they pay comparatively low salaries when compared to what you get working remote for US business. Worst case is when they IPO, they get a fat exit and the workers get nothing because company don't generally give equity here.
- cableshaft 5y ago
  > or that gaming companies "steal their talents" As a former developer in the game industry, I find that difficult to believe. The average career of someone in the game industry is ~3-6 years[1], as devs get chewed up, burnt out, and then discover that by leaving they can (usually) have greater work/life balance for about 50-100%+ more money. I lasted about four years myself, and as much as I'd love to work on games again, I couldn't accept the pay cut or the long hours. So I just make games in my free time now. I may take a 3-6 month sabbatical at some point to work on it full time again for a little while, but it'll be my own projects. They must treat their devs pretty poorly and/or pay garbage salaries there if gaming companies are successfully stealing devs away. [1]: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/the-great-video-game-exodus https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/the-great-video-game-...
  - tommica 5y ago
    Most likely they are just lying
AdrianB1 5y ago
Unfortunately yes, especially companies that are not IT but have a fair percentage of IT employees and salary bands; they don't like to have different salary bands between functions, like finance, marketing, IT, logistics, HR, etc. so there is a pressure to keep IT salaries in line with the other functions. Even if the IT guy with 2 years in the company brings 10 times more value than the 2 year bean counter, "equality, diversity and inclusion" is interpreted like "pay all people on the same salary band the same", especially when in finance/accounting you have mostly women* and in IT mostly men and you want, as a company CEO, to eliminate the "gender wage gap". * At least in my country for most, if not all companies.
- hackerfromthefu 5y ago
  These are the kinds of companies that can't keep good talent. Then then go to consulting companies and pay above market to get someone like me in when they need new systems built.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
missedthecue 5y ago
Unless you've raised a ton of money, I see no way that a new company can compete at these prices. With one decent engineer going for $160k all in, there's no way to do that if you're bootstrapping.
jltsiren 5y ago
The value of an engineer depends on the business. When software engineers are scarce, their compensation increases until the market has priced out sufficiently many potential employers. Those employers will then decide that they are better off not hiring a (good) software engineer than hiring one at the market rate, because the engineer does not create enough value to justify their cost.
ozim 5y ago
In eastern Europe they are lamenting because any dev that can speak english is getting rates that they cannot compete with.

MattGaiser 5y ago

Depends on where. Hearing the complaining openly at some companies. My former employer openly called American engineering salaries too high during all hands.

Sytten 5y ago

Well we have a couple of particularly vocal CEO here (Quebec, Canada) that are always moaning (sometimes on national television) about how they cannot find talent or that gaming companies "steal their talents". All the while they pay comparatively low salaries when compared to what you get working remote for US business. Worst case is when they IPO, they get a fat exit and the workers get nothing because company don't generally give equity here.

cableshaft 5y ago
> or that gaming companies "steal their talents" As a former developer in the game industry, I find that difficult to believe. The average career of someone in the game industry is ~3-6 years[1], as devs get chewed up, burnt out, and then discover that by leaving they can (usually) have greater work/life balance for about 50-100%+ more money. I lasted about four years myself, and as much as I'd love to work on games again, I couldn't accept the pay cut or the long hours. So I just make games in my free time now. I may take a 3-6 month sabbatical at some point to work on it full time again for a little while, but it'll be my own projects. They must treat their devs pretty poorly and/or pay garbage salaries there if gaming companies are successfully stealing devs away. [1]: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/the-great-video-game-exodus https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/the-great-video-game-...
- tommica 5y ago
  Most likely they are just lying

AdrianB1 5y ago

Unfortunately yes, especially companies that are not IT but have a fair percentage of IT employees and salary bands; they don't like to have different salary bands between functions, like finance, marketing, IT, logistics, HR, etc. so there is a pressure to keep IT salaries in line with the other functions. Even if the IT guy with 2 years in the company brings 10 times more value than the 2 year bean counter, "equality, diversity and inclusion" is interpreted like "pay all people on the same salary band the same", especially when in finance/accounting you have mostly women* and in IT mostly men and you want, as a company CEO, to eliminate the "gender wage gap". * At least in my country for most, if not all companies.

hackerfromthefu 5y ago
These are the kinds of companies that can't keep good talent. Then then go to consulting companies and pay above market to get someone like me in when they need new systems built.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

missedthecue 5y ago

Unless you've raised a ton of money, I see no way that a new company can compete at these prices. With one decent engineer going for $160k all in, there's no way to do that if you're bootstrapping.

jltsiren 5y ago

The value of an engineer depends on the business. When software engineers are scarce, their compensation increases until the market has priced out sufficiently many potential employers. Those employers will then decide that they are better off not hiring a (good) software engineer than hiring one at the market rate, because the engineer does not create enough value to justify their cost.

ozim 5y ago

In eastern Europe they are lamenting because any dev that can speak english is getting rates that they cannot compete with.