5 ms·

Yep, it's a win win for those teachers and school districts. Teachers get an enjoyable teaching experience with students that actually care about success AND th

Yep, it's a win win for those teachers and school districts. Teachers get an enjoyable teaching experience with students that actually care about success AND they get (much, much) higher pay. Students get great teachers. Unfortunately you can't really fix students not caring about their education. America doesn't have the type of shaming culture Asian countries have where class rankings are publicly posted and low scorers are socially stigmatized.

sokoloff 5y ago
I think a student in America is more likely to be stigmatized for doing well academically rather than for doing poorly.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  That really depends on where you went to school. The "in" crowd at my school were some of the smartest kids. My best friend from college was scolded by his peers for "acting white" when he tried hard growing up. Pop culture stereotypes kids who try hard as "nerds", but I don't really think it is a terribly accurate reflection of reality; post-secondary education attainment is as high as ever, so unless you are determined to do unskilled labor or run in a gang, you are more likely to try than not.
nineplay 5y ago
> Unfortunately you can't really fix students not caring about their education You absolutly can, it should be the easiest thing in the world. From birth give them caregivers with the time and ability to start learning early. Give them someone who will read to them daily, who will show them numbers and letters and counting. Send them to a good pre-school with motivated teachers who are able to teach them math and language and cause and effect without them realizing they are being taught. Send them to schools where they can do their assignments during the day, either in class or in an afterschool program. Give them tutors to help them in subjects they struggle with. In other works, give them what every middle and upper class kid gets. It would do wonders.
- pfkurtz 5y ago
  It all comes down to being willing, as a society, to devote adequate resources to everyone, and in particular to every child, regardless of circumstance.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    It also come down to providing better options to folks who don’t want to be or shouldn’t be parents. Lots of kids being born into homes that will fail them, even if you shoveled fiat into the household. (from experience as a volunteer guardian ad litem)
    - hiptobecubic 5y ago
      Yes, unfortunately it's quite easy to have them and not so easy to raise them. In the words of a famous poet: Tout le monde sait comment on fait des bébés, mais personne sait comment on fait des papas.
      - pfkurtz 5y ago
        Make it easy to get contraception. Make it easy for young men to get and then reverse vasectomies. Invest much more in the education system and children in general. Make it easy to get an abortion.
    - pfkurtz 5y ago
      That is one thing, and it is important, but what I said encompasses a lot more people and needs, so I think it doesn't quite "come down to" merely helping this one specific set of "problematic" adults you personally have some experience with. Maybe some problems are directly caused by what you said. "Shoveling fiat into the household." We had the biggest drop in child poverty during the pandemic (too bad it's temporary), because we gave people money. If you want to limit the supply of dollars raise taxes on the top, that's where all the "fiat" (lol) ends up after just a couple steps. What I said is much more general: our society must devote sufficient resources that all children have the opportunity to flourish.

sokoloff 5y ago

I think a student in America is more likely to be stigmatized for doing well academically rather than for doing poorly.

zdragnar 5y ago
That really depends on where you went to school. The "in" crowd at my school were some of the smartest kids. My best friend from college was scolded by his peers for "acting white" when he tried hard growing up. Pop culture stereotypes kids who try hard as "nerds", but I don't really think it is a terribly accurate reflection of reality; post-secondary education attainment is as high as ever, so unless you are determined to do unskilled labor or run in a gang, you are more likely to try than not.

nineplay 5y ago

> Unfortunately you can't really fix students not caring about their education You absolutly can, it should be the easiest thing in the world. From birth give them caregivers with the time and ability to start learning early. Give them someone who will read to them daily, who will show them numbers and letters and counting. Send them to a good pre-school with motivated teachers who are able to teach them math and language and cause and effect without them realizing they are being taught. Send them to schools where they can do their assignments during the day, either in class or in an afterschool program. Give them tutors to help them in subjects they struggle with. In other works, give them what every middle and upper class kid gets. It would do wonders.

pfkurtz 5y ago
It all comes down to being willing, as a society, to devote adequate resources to everyone, and in particular to every child, regardless of circumstance.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  It also come down to providing better options to folks who don’t want to be or shouldn’t be parents. Lots of kids being born into homes that will fail them, even if you shoveled fiat into the household. (from experience as a volunteer guardian ad litem)
  - hiptobecubic 5y ago
    Yes, unfortunately it's quite easy to have them and not so easy to raise them. In the words of a famous poet: Tout le monde sait comment on fait des bébés, mais personne sait comment on fait des papas.
    - pfkurtz 5y ago
      Make it easy to get contraception. Make it easy for young men to get and then reverse vasectomies. Invest much more in the education system and children in general. Make it easy to get an abortion.
  - pfkurtz 5y ago
    That is one thing, and it is important, but what I said encompasses a lot more people and needs, so I think it doesn't quite "come down to" merely helping this one specific set of "problematic" adults you personally have some experience with. Maybe some problems are directly caused by what you said. "Shoveling fiat into the household." We had the biggest drop in child poverty during the pandemic (too bad it's temporary), because we gave people money. If you want to limit the supply of dollars raise taxes on the top, that's where all the "fiat" (lol) ends up after just a couple steps. What I said is much more general: our society must devote sufficient resources that all children have the opportunity to flourish.