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How many motivated students who regularly attend class out there actually get a poor education? Sure, lots of students fail, but how many are specifically for

How many motivated students who regularly attend class out there actually get a poor education? Sure, lots of students fail, but how many are specifically for poor instruction?

Torifyme12 5y ago
Poor instruction comes in many forms. To give you an example, my brother was hated by a 3rd grade teacher. She would be just a bit harsher with him. Objectively she wasn't teaching him that 1+1 = 5 or something like that, but she was definitely destroying his motivation for school.
- Breazy 5y ago
  I saw that exact sort of thing happen numerous times. Teachers who habitually pick nemesis students year after year, to single out for uniquely harsh punishment and public derision. From what I've seen myself and heard from others, it's a serious and widespread problem, and has been for generations. How can this be solved though? I earnestly don't know. 'More funding' is the usual silver bullet solution for anything wrong with education, but would more funding actually fix this specific problem? Teachers who habitually do this to kids have something wrong in their head, paying them more money won't improve their behavior. You have to get rid of those teachers. But how do you do that? Getting rid of public school teachers for anything less than criminal misbehavior is very difficult; teachers unions can drag it out for years, and that's even assuming the administration is motivated to do something. Often, that's not the case. This sort of abusive behavior doesn't necessarily leave behind a paper trail to investigate, resulting in a he-said-she-said mess of allegations that are very difficult to untangle and much easier to ignore. Even if everything was recorded, it's still easier for the administration to ignore the problem than to address it; that's their path of least resistance. If you took the teachers union out of the picture, that wouldn't solve the problem because the administrations could still choose to ignore the problem. And of course, cutting funding to the schools doesn't fix this problem either. That only makes conditions shittier for everybody, it doesn't get rid of problem teachers.
  - carapace 5y ago
    > Teachers who habitually pick nemesis students year after year, to single out for uniquely harsh punishment and public derision. From what I've seen myself and heard from others, it's a serious and widespread problem, and has been for generations. It's a case of basic animal social order: someone has to be the low bird in the pecking order. If it's not a kid it'll be the teacher. > How can this be solved though? Keep the ratio of kids to adults low, 6:1 is probably the outer limit. Also the adults should be sane and emotionally mature.
  - swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
    My friend was bullied by a 3rd grade teacher - harsh lectures and detention. He a shy kid, never made trouble. I had my own experience with a hostile grad student teaching a required course. He would get exasperated trying to find faults with my homework.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  This was my middle school experience. Teachers gossiped like crazy, and if one took a dislike to you, you became branded. I had my own issues at the time, but man I hated that school. Fast forward to high school, and life totally turned around. Motivation, attainment and having a teacher believe in you are all closely tied together.
benrbray 5y ago
Surely in your own life you've had teachers that really stood out? Ones that made learning especially fun or effortless? Who are good at showing you how the knowledge can be useful in the real world? A lot of people seem to have this idea that there's no such thing as a bad teacher (especially when that teacher has a PhD), but to accept that you must also accept that there's no such thing as a good teacher either. All that matters is showing up to class, no matter how the teacher chooses to present the material?

How many motivated students who regularly attend class out there actually get a poor education? Sure, lots of students fail, but how many are specifically for poor instruction?

Torifyme12 5y ago

Poor instruction comes in many forms. To give you an example, my brother was hated by a 3rd grade teacher. She would be just a bit harsher with him. Objectively she wasn't teaching him that 1+1 = 5 or something like that, but she was definitely destroying his motivation for school.

Breazy 5y ago
I saw that exact sort of thing happen numerous times. Teachers who habitually pick nemesis students year after year, to single out for uniquely harsh punishment and public derision. From what I've seen myself and heard from others, it's a serious and widespread problem, and has been for generations. How can this be solved though? I earnestly don't know. 'More funding' is the usual silver bullet solution for anything wrong with education, but would more funding actually fix this specific problem? Teachers who habitually do this to kids have something wrong in their head, paying them more money won't improve their behavior. You have to get rid of those teachers. But how do you do that? Getting rid of public school teachers for anything less than criminal misbehavior is very difficult; teachers unions can drag it out for years, and that's even assuming the administration is motivated to do something. Often, that's not the case. This sort of abusive behavior doesn't necessarily leave behind a paper trail to investigate, resulting in a he-said-she-said mess of allegations that are very difficult to untangle and much easier to ignore. Even if everything was recorded, it's still easier for the administration to ignore the problem than to address it; that's their path of least resistance. If you took the teachers union out of the picture, that wouldn't solve the problem because the administrations could still choose to ignore the problem. And of course, cutting funding to the schools doesn't fix this problem either. That only makes conditions shittier for everybody, it doesn't get rid of problem teachers.
- carapace 5y ago
  > Teachers who habitually pick nemesis students year after year, to single out for uniquely harsh punishment and public derision. From what I've seen myself and heard from others, it's a serious and widespread problem, and has been for generations. It's a case of basic animal social order: someone has to be the low bird in the pecking order. If it's not a kid it'll be the teacher. > How can this be solved though? Keep the ratio of kids to adults low, 6:1 is probably the outer limit. Also the adults should be sane and emotionally mature.
- swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
  My friend was bullied by a 3rd grade teacher - harsh lectures and detention. He a shy kid, never made trouble. I had my own experience with a hostile grad student teaching a required course. He would get exasperated trying to find faults with my homework.
zdragnar 5y ago
This was my middle school experience. Teachers gossiped like crazy, and if one took a dislike to you, you became branded. I had my own issues at the time, but man I hated that school. Fast forward to high school, and life totally turned around. Motivation, attainment and having a teacher believe in you are all closely tied together.

benrbray 5y ago

Surely in your own life you've had teachers that really stood out? Ones that made learning especially fun or effortless? Who are good at showing you how the knowledge can be useful in the real world? A lot of people seem to have this idea that there's no such thing as a bad teacher (especially when that teacher has a PhD), but to accept that you must also accept that there's no such thing as a good teacher either. All that matters is showing up to class, no matter how the teacher chooses to present the material?