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It is pointless to debate with someone that invokes ideas outside the realm of scientific inquiry... that is definitionally true isn't it?
by jjcon 5y ago
It is pointless to debate with someone that invokes ideas outside the realm of scientific inquiry... that is definitionally true isn't it?
- vba616 5y agoIf I claim "no advanced automobile will ever develop the ability to run like a horse as an emergent phenomenon" Does that mean that I regard running as outside the realm of scientific inquiry?
- jjcon 5y agoI think OP is saying in this specific instance a lot of people are defining the word ‘consciousness’ as to be outside the realm of scientific inquiry. Certainly there is room to question if neural nets have developed consciousness as an emergent phenomena but if your definition of consciousness falls outside of scientific inquiry… what is the point in discussing it? Does that make more sense?
- NateEag 5y agoIf so, then there's no point in ever debating a mathematical idea.
- jjcon 5y agoSince when is math outside the realm of science?
- NateEag 5y agoMath is established by logic and proof. If a proof is sound, it should stand eternally. Humans are not perfect, so sometimes we are collectively mistaken about a proof's correctness. The fundamental nature of the process is still one of establishing inviolably proven facts and building on top of them. Science, on the other hand, is a never-ending iterative approximation process with occasional massive discontinuities when accepted theories are overturned. It relies on observed report and falsification of our current best guesses. No scientific "law" can ever be proven true, just labeled "not known to be wrong so far". Math is much closer to philosophy than science. It just happens to be pragmatically useful to the sciences: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unreasonable_Effectiveness_of_Mathematics_in_the_Natural_Sciences https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unreasonable_Effectivene...
- jjcon 5y agoI don't think any of that would put it outside the realm of science by any stretch though - science has its gradients, where some of it is ruled by math alone and other components are more data driven/'right until proven wrong' but it all falls under the scientific tooling and approach to the world.