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This article is really downplaying the racial element to the stories, the complaints about "smoking, making noise, bikes blocking walkways" in a city like Amste

This article is really downplaying the racial element to the stories, the complaints about "smoking, making noise, bikes blocking walkways" in a city like Amsterdam is a bit telling. Not that dark stores can be a nuisance but it's clearly a dimension in this story.

Tade0 5y ago
Interesting, could you elaborate? Is there anyone in particular they could have in mind complaining like that?
- noobermin 5y ago
  The article says it towards the end. Generally immigrants are riders for these shops I'm assuming and a rider is quoted saying riders are acting defensive: >Ramzy Läbidi, a student who spent five months as a rider for Gorillas, believes some riders are responding to the “weird, racist comments” they receive as they deliver orders around the city. “Eventually, I think [some riders] get frustrated, and they go on vigilante mode and try to do something about it,” he says, adding that this might motivate some riders to pick fights.
LaurensBER 5y ago
Although I have no doubt that there's an element of racism in there it doesn't seem to be the root cause here. Keep in mind that Amsterdam is a very diverse city and in general racism tends to be quite low. I'm guessing (hoping) that some of the racistic comments were spoken in a moment of frustration (which given the noise and general disturbances 24/7 would create plenty of opportunities) and do not signal a changing attitude towards "foreigners" in Amsterdam.
boh 5y ago
It's interesting that class prejudice is exclusively expressed as a racial issue these days.
- vinay427 5y ago
  I’m unsure how you interpreted “downplaying the racial element” and “a dimension in this story” in the GP comment to mean “exclusively.” There are numerous alternatives I can think of that the commenter could have used to indicate exclusivity, but their phrasing seems to clearly (IMO) indicate that it’s simply an element that is underplayed in this article.
- MajorBee 5y ago
  When certain races are disproportionately represented in certain classes, you can't help but draw a parallel between the two issues... I'm not claiming that's the case here (I have no idea if these "riders" referred to in the article are mostly immigrants or not), but it is certainly a common phenomenon.
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  That is self-contradictory for one unless you are posting from a different era. There are plenty doing the exact opposite and insisting that all racial prejudice is somehow class based and that "class solidarity" is somehow the natural state of the world. Including infamously demanding that racial minorities basically sit down and shut up because their problems are a "distraction".
  - boh 5y ago
    I wonder which era one needs to post so as to not be guilty of this unspecified "self" contradiction. Interesting to hear that "plenty" are making such specific demands for a random assortment of unidentified people simply categorized as racial minorities. I guess details aren't necessary when we can just say someone is doing something to some people at some point and it's not good.
periheli0n 5y ago
This is not the only hole in the story. When I would get harassed at 2am by an employee of a half-illegal business I would a) call the cops to shut down the noise, b) team up with a few neighbours to obtain legal counsel how to shut them them down. Why are the residents not doing that, or rather, why is the article not writing about that? Edit: I don't want to talk down the racial component. It is certainly sad that the article glosses over that part of the story. But still I wonder why the residents are not doing the obvious and call the cops—or if they did, why the article doesn't talk about it.
danielfoster 5y ago
I viewed the Instagram created by one of the residents and based on what I can see from photos of “the problems,” this seems like a classic case of NIMBYism and perhaps racism.

Tade0 5y ago

Interesting, could you elaborate? Is there anyone in particular they could have in mind complaining like that?

noobermin 5y ago
The article says it towards the end. Generally immigrants are riders for these shops I'm assuming and a rider is quoted saying riders are acting defensive: >Ramzy Läbidi, a student who spent five months as a rider for Gorillas, believes some riders are responding to the “weird, racist comments” they receive as they deliver orders around the city. “Eventually, I think [some riders] get frustrated, and they go on vigilante mode and try to do something about it,” he says, adding that this might motivate some riders to pick fights.

LaurensBER 5y ago

Although I have no doubt that there's an element of racism in there it doesn't seem to be the root cause here. Keep in mind that Amsterdam is a very diverse city and in general racism tends to be quite low. I'm guessing (hoping) that some of the racistic comments were spoken in a moment of frustration (which given the noise and general disturbances 24/7 would create plenty of opportunities) and do not signal a changing attitude towards "foreigners" in Amsterdam.

boh 5y ago

It's interesting that class prejudice is exclusively expressed as a racial issue these days.

vinay427 5y ago
I’m unsure how you interpreted “downplaying the racial element” and “a dimension in this story” in the GP comment to mean “exclusively.” There are numerous alternatives I can think of that the commenter could have used to indicate exclusivity, but their phrasing seems to clearly (IMO) indicate that it’s simply an element that is underplayed in this article.
MajorBee 5y ago
When certain races are disproportionately represented in certain classes, you can't help but draw a parallel between the two issues... I'm not claiming that's the case here (I have no idea if these "riders" referred to in the article are mostly immigrants or not), but it is certainly a common phenomenon.
Nasrudith 5y ago
That is self-contradictory for one unless you are posting from a different era. There are plenty doing the exact opposite and insisting that all racial prejudice is somehow class based and that "class solidarity" is somehow the natural state of the world. Including infamously demanding that racial minorities basically sit down and shut up because their problems are a "distraction".
- boh 5y ago
  I wonder which era one needs to post so as to not be guilty of this unspecified "self" contradiction. Interesting to hear that "plenty" are making such specific demands for a random assortment of unidentified people simply categorized as racial minorities. I guess details aren't necessary when we can just say someone is doing something to some people at some point and it's not good.

periheli0n 5y ago

This is not the only hole in the story. When I would get harassed at 2am by an employee of a half-illegal business I would a) call the cops to shut down the noise, b) team up with a few neighbours to obtain legal counsel how to shut them them down. Why are the residents not doing that, or rather, why is the article not writing about that? Edit: I don't want to talk down the racial component. It is certainly sad that the article glosses over that part of the story. But still I wonder why the residents are not doing the obvious and call the cops—or if they did, why the article doesn't talk about it.

danielfoster 5y ago

I viewed the Instagram created by one of the residents and based on what I can see from photos of “the problems,” this seems like a classic case of NIMBYism and perhaps racism.