5 ms·

Isn't running noisy 24/7 businesses in residential areas and repeated threatening behaviour from riders something that the cops should be able to shut down rela

Isn't running noisy 24/7 businesses in residential areas and repeated threatening behaviour from riders something that the cops should be able to shut down relatively easily?

johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
My thoughts exactly, does amsterdam not have zoning restrictions?
- matsemann 5y ago
  Most cities in europe prefer mixed zoning, so one doesn't get those crazy suburbs. So it's normal to have businesses in the lowest floors with apartments around. But those are often small stores, cafés, restaurants etc, making the city feel alive and provide services to the residents. Not covered windows and buildings you cannot enter, and being a nuisance.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    The amount of barbers and hairdressers here is something to behold at times. Or even offices for some types of firms. I think it is reasonable and makes lot of sense to have these types of businesses being available near where people actually live. I'm not really too keen on dark stores that aren't available for general public. I would much prefer regular store to one, even if that store would only be counter and pick-up only.
  - periheli0n 5y ago
    But mixed zoning usually comes with rules regarding opening hours, and a requirement to respect the neighbors' sleep. If a business repeatedly breaks those rules they get shut down. That's how in works in my city. The rules might be different in different cities/countries, but at least nightly harassment shouldn't be something that one has to tolerate.
    - dan-robertson 5y ago
      In the U.K. there are plenty of pubs in residential areas (as there have been since long before zoning was a thing) and they may often be noisy in the evenings. Some people will buy a house/flat next to a pub and then discover they don’t really like the noise. There are rules about when businesses may open (and when they may sell alcohol) but a lot of them are historic Sunday trading laws or designed to give convenience stores an advantage over larger supermarkets. I think there are rules about where industrial buildings may be located. I think there are very few rules about where offices may be (and they can be open whenever) and there are probably some generic night noise laws, but eg the pub example above isn’t breaching them (you may see a pub with a sign outside asking people to be considerate or more rarely a pub with a sign that says something like ‘a pub has been here for X years and our neighbours should have known that it would be noisy in the evenings’)
  - roywashere 5y ago
    There are zoning laws and there is mixed zoning. There used to be many smaller shops in residential areas and since the 70s many shops have closed in favour of supermarkets and so on. In the street I lived before, there used to be many different shops such as fish shops, cheese chops, vegetables, small shops selling carpets and so on. When I moved there in 2002, the only shops left were one butcher, one bakery and one that sold cigarettes and magazines and in 2022 they all closed. These were all located in buildings with an appartment on the floors above, where typically the owner lived. You would actually need a permit to transform the former shop into an appartment and this is mostly granted. However if you would take such a place and convert it into a 'dark store' you typically do not even need a permit! The Dutch regulations just did not expect shops to be open 24/7 in small residential areas like this and to need 24/7 supplies from big trucks and 'riders' hanging around all day and night, where typical Dutch stores would close at 6pm
holografix 5y ago
I have unfortunately had the biggest displeasure of dealing with Dutch police after someone stole my backpack. They were useless and downright offensive. The crime happened is full view of a security camera and they refused to do anything at all about it and instead performing what I call the “European fuck you”: handing me a form to fill. Adding insult to injury I was told that “it happened all the time” when I asked them what the fuck are they doing to stop it happening then, I was threaten for my language.
thunkshift1 5y ago
Yes.. and how often do you think they should be doing it? And where should it sit in their list of priorities?

Isn't running noisy 24/7 businesses in residential areas and repeated threatening behaviour from riders something that the cops should be able to shut down relatively easily?

johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago

My thoughts exactly, does amsterdam not have zoning restrictions?

matsemann 5y ago
Most cities in europe prefer mixed zoning, so one doesn't get those crazy suburbs. So it's normal to have businesses in the lowest floors with apartments around. But those are often small stores, cafés, restaurants etc, making the city feel alive and provide services to the residents. Not covered windows and buildings you cannot enter, and being a nuisance.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  The amount of barbers and hairdressers here is something to behold at times. Or even offices for some types of firms. I think it is reasonable and makes lot of sense to have these types of businesses being available near where people actually live. I'm not really too keen on dark stores that aren't available for general public. I would much prefer regular store to one, even if that store would only be counter and pick-up only.
- periheli0n 5y ago
  But mixed zoning usually comes with rules regarding opening hours, and a requirement to respect the neighbors' sleep. If a business repeatedly breaks those rules they get shut down. That's how in works in my city. The rules might be different in different cities/countries, but at least nightly harassment shouldn't be something that one has to tolerate.
  - dan-robertson 5y ago
    In the U.K. there are plenty of pubs in residential areas (as there have been since long before zoning was a thing) and they may often be noisy in the evenings. Some people will buy a house/flat next to a pub and then discover they don’t really like the noise. There are rules about when businesses may open (and when they may sell alcohol) but a lot of them are historic Sunday trading laws or designed to give convenience stores an advantage over larger supermarkets. I think there are rules about where industrial buildings may be located. I think there are very few rules about where offices may be (and they can be open whenever) and there are probably some generic night noise laws, but eg the pub example above isn’t breaching them (you may see a pub with a sign outside asking people to be considerate or more rarely a pub with a sign that says something like ‘a pub has been here for X years and our neighbours should have known that it would be noisy in the evenings’)
- roywashere 5y ago
  There are zoning laws and there is mixed zoning. There used to be many smaller shops in residential areas and since the 70s many shops have closed in favour of supermarkets and so on. In the street I lived before, there used to be many different shops such as fish shops, cheese chops, vegetables, small shops selling carpets and so on. When I moved there in 2002, the only shops left were one butcher, one bakery and one that sold cigarettes and magazines and in 2022 they all closed. These were all located in buildings with an appartment on the floors above, where typically the owner lived. You would actually need a permit to transform the former shop into an appartment and this is mostly granted. However if you would take such a place and convert it into a 'dark store' you typically do not even need a permit! The Dutch regulations just did not expect shops to be open 24/7 in small residential areas like this and to need 24/7 supplies from big trucks and 'riders' hanging around all day and night, where typical Dutch stores would close at 6pm

holografix 5y ago

I have unfortunately had the biggest displeasure of dealing with Dutch police after someone stole my backpack. They were useless and downright offensive. The crime happened is full view of a security camera and they refused to do anything at all about it and instead performing what I call the “European fuck you”: handing me a form to fill. Adding insult to injury I was told that “it happened all the time” when I asked them what the fuck are they doing to stop it happening then, I was threaten for my language.

thunkshift1 5y ago

Yes.. and how often do you think they should be doing it? And where should it sit in their list of priorities?