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Well, as a first generation immigrant myself, I myself completely oppose the current policy of stuffing an increasing amount of newcomers into the same infrastr

Well, as a first generation immigrant myself, I myself completely oppose the current policy of stuffing an increasing amount of newcomers into the same infrastructure, same overcrowded cities same number of hospital beds, etc. This is a race to the bottom where everyone suffers. I myself moved to Canada because it used to be a society where you can play by certain rules and get a better life quality than in my home country where people lost trust in each other, government, or the rules. This is very rapidly ceasing to be the case. If you look at Indian subreddits, you can see plenty of disenchanted people realizing that being middle class at home is better than sharing a condo with 5 other people in Canada. I see many Russians and Chinese coming back because the bang for the buck is just not there anymore. Canada's solution to it is to welcome and embrace anyone who's willing to put up with the steadily lowering life quality, for the sake of generating returns on the previous generations' investments. I don't think this is correct, I don't think this will end well, and I don't think it's fair to call anyone objecting to it "far-right" and "immigrant-haters".

jszymborski 5y ago
I think what you're saying is that we need to invest in infrastructure to support our growing population, which is not a controversial statement. Please forgive me, but you seem to indicate that the quality of life in Canada is falling and that immigration is the cause. Does this mean that you believe that you yourself reduced the quality of life in Canada for Canadians? I for one don't agree with this. One simple reason is that I don't buy the premise. I'm not aware of any evidence that the quality of life of Canadians is degrading in any way that correlates with immigration, and certainly not aware of any causative explanations. Here are a couple of (totally imperfect) financial metrics for purchasing power and Gini coefficients that seem stable. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b001-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b0... https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm My grandparents immigrated from Italy, and so I'm (at least historically speaking) recent product of immigration. I don't feel right making the argument that, up until my grandparents came here, immigration was OK, but afterwards, we should have shut the door. Feels a bit too convenient of an argument, especially when, generations later, their offspring (hi!) are occupying many of the medical services and infrastructure you say are crowded.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Your grandparents came at a different time with different skills from a poorer place relatively speaking. If new immigrants are finding the quality of life to be lower than expected because rents are higher and opportunity to buy a house is lower than your grandparents era you have to agree that the quality of life may be the same for newcomers. Plus the quality of life in China and India is higher than ever.
  - jszymborski 5y ago
    If you're saying that the quality of life in China and India is rising, bully for them! An ideal world would see immigration primarily motivated by preference and not poverty or oppression. I would, however, suggest that "quality of life" doesn't begin and end at house prices but also is tied to e.g.: civil freedoms, which you'll find Canada scores much higher than either you examples here by large margins in any (incomplete/flawed, etc...) freedom index [0]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World The bottom line is I don't see evidence for Canada's "fall from grace" and even less for it being tied to immigration.
- dirtyid 5y ago
  The sentiment is Canada/west use to be golden ticket/easy mode for privileged immigrants who were top of their respective societies, i.e. one was better off driving taxis in Canada than be a doctor in China. But over the last 10-20 years, QoL of even high-income in west is feeling more and more inferior than staying in the "old country". Caveat being which "old country". If your from Italy that's stuck in it's own western devolution cycle, you won't feel it. But if you're Chinese, Indian, or from some other rapidly developing economy, and see their peers get wealthy back home, live like kings due to purchase power and income disparity, without all the racial drama of multicultural societies - there is serious FOMO. Meanwhile 2nd gen PoC kids raised in western societies are grinding through 6 figure jobs like a chump while dealing with intersectional drama * . Right now, the feeling is being top in PRC or India affords better life on multi-generational scale than being high-income (6 figure) in the west which still won't guarantee your kids won't be grinding. * It's hard to emphasis the value of not dealing with being a PoC / feeling like an outsider. It's a kind of "freedom" available back home that for many outweighs western liberal values like free speech etc.

jszymborski 5y ago

I think what you're saying is that we need to invest in infrastructure to support our growing population, which is not a controversial statement. Please forgive me, but you seem to indicate that the quality of life in Canada is falling and that immigration is the cause. Does this mean that you believe that you yourself reduced the quality of life in Canada for Canadians? I for one don't agree with this. One simple reason is that I don't buy the premise. I'm not aware of any evidence that the quality of life of Canadians is degrading in any way that correlates with immigration, and certainly not aware of any causative explanations. Here are a couple of (totally imperfect) financial metrics for purchasing power and Gini coefficients that seem stable. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b001-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b0... https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm My grandparents immigrated from Italy, and so I'm (at least historically speaking) recent product of immigration. I don't feel right making the argument that, up until my grandparents came here, immigration was OK, but afterwards, we should have shut the door. Feels a bit too convenient of an argument, especially when, generations later, their offspring (hi!) are occupying many of the medical services and infrastructure you say are crowded.

ipaddr 5y ago
Your grandparents came at a different time with different skills from a poorer place relatively speaking. If new immigrants are finding the quality of life to be lower than expected because rents are higher and opportunity to buy a house is lower than your grandparents era you have to agree that the quality of life may be the same for newcomers. Plus the quality of life in China and India is higher than ever.
- jszymborski 5y ago
  If you're saying that the quality of life in China and India is rising, bully for them! An ideal world would see immigration primarily motivated by preference and not poverty or oppression. I would, however, suggest that "quality of life" doesn't begin and end at house prices but also is tied to e.g.: civil freedoms, which you'll find Canada scores much higher than either you examples here by large margins in any (incomplete/flawed, etc...) freedom index [0]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World The bottom line is I don't see evidence for Canada's "fall from grace" and even less for it being tied to immigration.
dirtyid 5y ago
The sentiment is Canada/west use to be golden ticket/easy mode for privileged immigrants who were top of their respective societies, i.e. one was better off driving taxis in Canada than be a doctor in China. But over the last 10-20 years, QoL of even high-income in west is feeling more and more inferior than staying in the "old country". Caveat being which "old country". If your from Italy that's stuck in it's own western devolution cycle, you won't feel it. But if you're Chinese, Indian, or from some other rapidly developing economy, and see their peers get wealthy back home, live like kings due to purchase power and income disparity, without all the racial drama of multicultural societies - there is serious FOMO. Meanwhile 2nd gen PoC kids raised in western societies are grinding through 6 figure jobs like a chump while dealing with intersectional drama * . Right now, the feeling is being top in PRC or India affords better life on multi-generational scale than being high-income (6 figure) in the west which still won't guarantee your kids won't be grinding. * It's hard to emphasis the value of not dealing with being a PoC / feeling like an outsider. It's a kind of "freedom" available back home that for many outweighs western liberal values like free speech etc.