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You seem to be implying that the protestors were white supremacists, do you have a source for that claim?

by mdoms 5y ago

jszymborski 5y ago
Take a look at the organizers: 1 - Tamara Lich, secessionist and founder of the Maverick Party which has some unkind words for immigrants https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gun-maverick-party-calgary-canada-1.5728875 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gu... 2 - BJ Dichter - Promoter of the "political islam" and "great replacement" theory https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga... 3 - Pat King - Member of far-right hate group Canada Unity https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga...
- john_moscow 5y ago
  Well, as a first generation immigrant myself, I myself completely oppose the current policy of stuffing an increasing amount of newcomers into the same infrastructure, same overcrowded cities same number of hospital beds, etc. This is a race to the bottom where everyone suffers. I myself moved to Canada because it used to be a society where you can play by certain rules and get a better life quality than in my home country where people lost trust in each other, government, or the rules. This is very rapidly ceasing to be the case. If you look at Indian subreddits, you can see plenty of disenchanted people realizing that being middle class at home is better than sharing a condo with 5 other people in Canada. I see many Russians and Chinese coming back because the bang for the buck is just not there anymore. Canada's solution to it is to welcome and embrace anyone who's willing to put up with the steadily lowering life quality, for the sake of generating returns on the previous generations' investments. I don't think this is correct, I don't think this will end well, and I don't think it's fair to call anyone objecting to it "far-right" and "immigrant-haters".
  - jszymborski 5y ago
    I think what you're saying is that we need to invest in infrastructure to support our growing population, which is not a controversial statement. Please forgive me, but you seem to indicate that the quality of life in Canada is falling and that immigration is the cause. Does this mean that you believe that you yourself reduced the quality of life in Canada for Canadians? I for one don't agree with this. One simple reason is that I don't buy the premise. I'm not aware of any evidence that the quality of life of Canadians is degrading in any way that correlates with immigration, and certainly not aware of any causative explanations. Here are a couple of (totally imperfect) financial metrics for purchasing power and Gini coefficients that seem stable. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b001-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b0... https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm My grandparents immigrated from Italy, and so I'm (at least historically speaking) recent product of immigration. I don't feel right making the argument that, up until my grandparents came here, immigration was OK, but afterwards, we should have shut the door. Feels a bit too convenient of an argument, especially when, generations later, their offspring (hi!) are occupying many of the medical services and infrastructure you say are crowded.
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      Your grandparents came at a different time with different skills from a poorer place relatively speaking. If new immigrants are finding the quality of life to be lower than expected because rents are higher and opportunity to buy a house is lower than your grandparents era you have to agree that the quality of life may be the same for newcomers. Plus the quality of life in China and India is higher than ever.
      - jszymborski 5y ago
        If you're saying that the quality of life in China and India is rising, bully for them! An ideal world would see immigration primarily motivated by preference and not poverty or oppression. I would, however, suggest that "quality of life" doesn't begin and end at house prices but also is tied to e.g.: civil freedoms, which you'll find Canada scores much higher than either you examples here by large margins in any (incomplete/flawed, etc...) freedom index [0]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World The bottom line is I don't see evidence for Canada's "fall from grace" and even less for it being tied to immigration.
- nec4b 5y ago
  Do you also believe BLM protest were marxist, because the organizers were trained marxists (their own words)? Can a white-supremacist help an old lady a cross the street because of his kindness or does he always have an ulterior white-supremacist motive? What are the demands from the protesters that make this protest white-supremacist?

You seem to be implying that the protestors were white supremacists, do you have a source for that claim?

by mdoms 5y ago

You seem to be implying that the protestors were white supremacists, do you have a source for that claim?

Take a look at the organizers: 1 - Tamara Lich, secessionist and founder of the Maverick Party which has some unkind words for immigrants https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gun-maverick-party-calgary-canada-1.5728875 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gu... 2 - BJ Dichter - Promoter of the "political islam" and "great replacement" theory https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga... 3 - Pat King - Member of far-right hate group Canada Unity https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga...

john_moscow 5y ago
Well, as a first generation immigrant myself, I myself completely oppose the current policy of stuffing an increasing amount of newcomers into the same infrastructure, same overcrowded cities same number of hospital beds, etc. This is a race to the bottom where everyone suffers. I myself moved to Canada because it used to be a society where you can play by certain rules and get a better life quality than in my home country where people lost trust in each other, government, or the rules. This is very rapidly ceasing to be the case. If you look at Indian subreddits, you can see plenty of disenchanted people realizing that being middle class at home is better than sharing a condo with 5 other people in Canada. I see many Russians and Chinese coming back because the bang for the buck is just not there anymore. Canada's solution to it is to welcome and embrace anyone who's willing to put up with the steadily lowering life quality, for the sake of generating returns on the previous generations' investments. I don't think this is correct, I don't think this will end well, and I don't think it's fair to call anyone objecting to it "far-right" and "immigrant-haters".
- jszymborski 5y ago
  I think what you're saying is that we need to invest in infrastructure to support our growing population, which is not a controversial statement. Please forgive me, but you seem to indicate that the quality of life in Canada is falling and that immigration is the cause. Does this mean that you believe that you yourself reduced the quality of life in Canada for Canadians? I for one don't agree with this. One simple reason is that I don't buy the premise. I'm not aware of any evidence that the quality of life of Canadians is degrading in any way that correlates with immigration, and certainly not aware of any causative explanations. Here are a couple of (totally imperfect) financial metrics for purchasing power and Gini coefficients that seem stable. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b001-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b0... https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm My grandparents immigrated from Italy, and so I'm (at least historically speaking) recent product of immigration. I don't feel right making the argument that, up until my grandparents came here, immigration was OK, but afterwards, we should have shut the door. Feels a bit too convenient of an argument, especially when, generations later, their offspring (hi!) are occupying many of the medical services and infrastructure you say are crowded.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Your grandparents came at a different time with different skills from a poorer place relatively speaking. If new immigrants are finding the quality of life to be lower than expected because rents are higher and opportunity to buy a house is lower than your grandparents era you have to agree that the quality of life may be the same for newcomers. Plus the quality of life in China and India is higher than ever.
    - jszymborski 5y ago
      If you're saying that the quality of life in China and India is rising, bully for them! An ideal world would see immigration primarily motivated by preference and not poverty or oppression. I would, however, suggest that "quality of life" doesn't begin and end at house prices but also is tied to e.g.: civil freedoms, which you'll find Canada scores much higher than either you examples here by large margins in any (incomplete/flawed, etc...) freedom index [0]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World The bottom line is I don't see evidence for Canada's "fall from grace" and even less for it being tied to immigration.
nec4b 5y ago
Do you also believe BLM protest were marxist, because the organizers were trained marxists (their own words)? Can a white-supremacist help an old lady a cross the street because of his kindness or does he always have an ulterior white-supremacist motive? What are the demands from the protesters that make this protest white-supremacist?