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We are at that point in history where your financial moves will have direct impact on your life. The small fish even, those who donate $100, are no longer too s

We are at that point in history where your financial moves will have direct impact on your life. The small fish even, those who donate $100, are no longer too small to cancel. This is a tragedy. Leaked, hacked data being used to fire and harass everyday people is a slippery slope that we are already slipping down.

jszymborski 5y ago
In the not so distant past, a staffer supporting white supremacists financially would get you an invitation to certain BBQs or a pat on the back. Today, it's increasingly (although not universally) a liability. I'm OK living in a world with consequences for supporting secessionists and white supremacists. No idea why this is flagged. The organisers of the occupation and the GoFundMe are known to be white nationalists or neo-nazis. https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga...
- mdoms 5y ago
  You seem to be implying that the protestors were white supremacists, do you have a source for that claim?
  - jszymborski 5y ago
    Take a look at the organizers: 1 - Tamara Lich, secessionist and founder of the Maverick Party which has some unkind words for immigrants https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gun-maverick-party-calgary-canada-1.5728875 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gu... 2 - BJ Dichter - Promoter of the "political islam" and "great replacement" theory https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga... 3 - Pat King - Member of far-right hate group Canada Unity https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga...
    - john_moscow 5y ago
      Well, as a first generation immigrant myself, I myself completely oppose the current policy of stuffing an increasing amount of newcomers into the same infrastructure, same overcrowded cities same number of hospital beds, etc. This is a race to the bottom where everyone suffers. I myself moved to Canada because it used to be a society where you can play by certain rules and get a better life quality than in my home country where people lost trust in each other, government, or the rules. This is very rapidly ceasing to be the case. If you look at Indian subreddits, you can see plenty of disenchanted people realizing that being middle class at home is better than sharing a condo with 5 other people in Canada. I see many Russians and Chinese coming back because the bang for the buck is just not there anymore. Canada's solution to it is to welcome and embrace anyone who's willing to put up with the steadily lowering life quality, for the sake of generating returns on the previous generations' investments. I don't think this is correct, I don't think this will end well, and I don't think it's fair to call anyone objecting to it "far-right" and "immigrant-haters".
      - jszymborski 5y ago
        I think what you're saying is that we need to invest in infrastructure to support our growing population, which is not a controversial statement. Please forgive me, but you seem to indicate that the quality of life in Canada is falling and that immigration is the cause. Does this mean that you believe that you yourself reduced the quality of life in Canada for Canadians? I for one don't agree with this. One simple reason is that I don't buy the premise. I'm not aware of any evidence that the quality of life of Canadians is degrading in any way that correlates with immigration, and certainly not aware of any causative explanations. Here are a couple of (totally imperfect) financial metrics for purchasing power and Gini coefficients that seem stable. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b001-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b0... https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm My grandparents immigrated from Italy, and so I'm (at least historically speaking) recent product of immigration. I don't feel right making the argument that, up until my grandparents came here, immigration was OK, but afterwards, we should have shut the door. Feels a bit too convenient of an argument, especially when, generations later, their offspring (hi!) are occupying many of the medical services and infrastructure you say are crowded.
- yucky 5y ago
magicjosh 5y ago
At what point do platforms like GiveSendGo anonymize payments for real? (realize this is potentially a leading question about cryptocurrency mixers, but maybe there's a way to implement this with regular currencies) I'm all for traceability, but I can't see donating anything through GiveSendGo if all my data is going to be leaked. Same with Kickstarter. They're just creating a honeypot/target for hackers.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  you can't. not until the AML laws get repealed. The payment processor was hacked as well, and all payment data, including card data was leaked. Amazingly, the entire 5GB archive was made available to journalists for "research", who then began promptly dialing everyone for "comments". Twitter refuses to this day to take down tweets that include personal data, despite their policy on hacked data.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    > Twitter refuses to this day to take down tweets that include personal data, despite their policy on hacked data. It's actually even worse than if they just never enforced their policy on hacked data. What they actually do is selectively enforce it, apparently based on which side of the political spectrum would benefit. For example, remember that they did take down all of those tweets about what was on Hunter Biden's laptop, citing that policy as justification.
  - magicjosh 5y ago
    ooo what about some kind of zero knowledge proof that proves citizenship but nothing else.
kstenerud 5y ago
Using leaked, hacked data that reveals a member of government contributing materially to a movement for the purpose of engaging in illegal activity against the government is not what I'd call a slippery slope...
- solarhoma 5y ago
  By that logic every member of Canadian (and even other nations governments) who support BLM, Antifa, etc should be fired as well.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    If they were political staffers for a party that opposed such things, they would be.
  - kstenerud 5y ago
    If they were contributing to a campaign by one of those groups to break Canadian law, then yes. Laws are written and imposed by the government, and a government employee actively supporting the breaking of the law is simply unacceptable. That's not how we do things in Canada.
    - haswell 5y ago
      Can you imagine a scenario where such a donation both: 1) Contributes to a “law breaking” cause 2) Still aligns with your views? It’s easy to talk about the correctness of this when the infringement seems pretty harmful/disruptive. But social change is often messy, and protests often move into a grey area that is not so easy to judge. Whether you agree with this particular action, it raises much bigger questions than the current unfolding event.
      - kstenerud 5y ago
        I can absolutely imagine such a situation, but my position doesn't change. For government, there's only one impartial way to deal with this: Either it's legal, or it isn't. Any moral or ethical judgment will happen later after the movement succeeds or fails, but for the time being you either work with the law, or you leave the government. If you're found to be working against the laws of the land, that's more than ample reason to be kicked out of government.
irthomasthomas 5y ago
There are parallels between this event and the takedown of the British National Party. Around 2009 an insider leaked their member list, in a similar fashion. The same year antifa was activated to protest the BNP. From my recollection, antifa where always considerate enough to inform the police when they planned to protest a protest, or clash with a political group like this. The clashes with police help the story spread. It is the physical manifestation of an ideological conflict. At the time, I was generally supportive of antifa (remember, they where brand new then, although technically founded earlier, they had been dormant for a long time). However, despite the BNP declining into irrelevance after this, they where replaced by UKIP, and the far right, in Britain, has probably never been bigger than it is today. The publicized clashes between antifa and the right, ended up beeing useful recruitment propaganda to both sides. To the people on the right, it was proof that the far left was dangerous and intent on suppressing opposing political views. And vice versa.

jszymborski 5y ago

In the not so distant past, a staffer supporting white supremacists financially would get you an invitation to certain BBQs or a pat on the back. Today, it's increasingly (although not universally) a liability. I'm OK living in a world with consequences for supporting secessionists and white supremacists. No idea why this is flagged. The organisers of the occupation and the GoFundMe are known to be white nationalists or neo-nazis. https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga...

mdoms 5y ago
You seem to be implying that the protestors were white supremacists, do you have a source for that claim?
- jszymborski 5y ago
  Take a look at the organizers: 1 - Tamara Lich, secessionist and founder of the Maverick Party which has some unkind words for immigrants https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gun-maverick-party-calgary-canada-1.5728875 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gu... 2 - BJ Dichter - Promoter of the "political islam" and "great replacement" theory https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga... 3 - Pat King - Member of far-right hate group Canada Unity https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga...
  - john_moscow 5y ago
    Well, as a first generation immigrant myself, I myself completely oppose the current policy of stuffing an increasing amount of newcomers into the same infrastructure, same overcrowded cities same number of hospital beds, etc. This is a race to the bottom where everyone suffers. I myself moved to Canada because it used to be a society where you can play by certain rules and get a better life quality than in my home country where people lost trust in each other, government, or the rules. This is very rapidly ceasing to be the case. If you look at Indian subreddits, you can see plenty of disenchanted people realizing that being middle class at home is better than sharing a condo with 5 other people in Canada. I see many Russians and Chinese coming back because the bang for the buck is just not there anymore. Canada's solution to it is to welcome and embrace anyone who's willing to put up with the steadily lowering life quality, for the sake of generating returns on the previous generations' investments. I don't think this is correct, I don't think this will end well, and I don't think it's fair to call anyone objecting to it "far-right" and "immigrant-haters".
    - jszymborski 5y ago
      I think what you're saying is that we need to invest in infrastructure to support our growing population, which is not a controversial statement. Please forgive me, but you seem to indicate that the quality of life in Canada is falling and that immigration is the cause. Does this mean that you believe that you yourself reduced the quality of life in Canada for Canadians? I for one don't agree with this. One simple reason is that I don't buy the premise. I'm not aware of any evidence that the quality of life of Canadians is degrading in any way that correlates with immigration, and certainly not aware of any causative explanations. Here are a couple of (totally imperfect) financial metrics for purchasing power and Gini coefficients that seem stable. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b001-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/200728/cg-b0... https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm https://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm My grandparents immigrated from Italy, and so I'm (at least historically speaking) recent product of immigration. I don't feel right making the argument that, up until my grandparents came here, immigration was OK, but afterwards, we should have shut the door. Feels a bit too convenient of an argument, especially when, generations later, their offspring (hi!) are occupying many of the medical services and infrastructure you say are crowded.
yucky 5y ago

magicjosh 5y ago

At what point do platforms like GiveSendGo anonymize payments for real? (realize this is potentially a leading question about cryptocurrency mixers, but maybe there's a way to implement this with regular currencies) I'm all for traceability, but I can't see donating anything through GiveSendGo if all my data is going to be leaked. Same with Kickstarter. They're just creating a honeypot/target for hackers.

inter_netuser 5y ago
you can't. not until the AML laws get repealed. The payment processor was hacked as well, and all payment data, including card data was leaked. Amazingly, the entire 5GB archive was made available to journalists for "research", who then began promptly dialing everyone for "comments". Twitter refuses to this day to take down tweets that include personal data, despite their policy on hacked data.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > Twitter refuses to this day to take down tweets that include personal data, despite their policy on hacked data. It's actually even worse than if they just never enforced their policy on hacked data. What they actually do is selectively enforce it, apparently based on which side of the political spectrum would benefit. For example, remember that they did take down all of those tweets about what was on Hunter Biden's laptop, citing that policy as justification.
- magicjosh 5y ago
  ooo what about some kind of zero knowledge proof that proves citizenship but nothing else.

kstenerud 5y ago

Using leaked, hacked data that reveals a member of government contributing materially to a movement for the purpose of engaging in illegal activity against the government is not what I'd call a slippery slope...

solarhoma 5y ago
By that logic every member of Canadian (and even other nations governments) who support BLM, Antifa, etc should be fired as well.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  If they were political staffers for a party that opposed such things, they would be.
- kstenerud 5y ago
  If they were contributing to a campaign by one of those groups to break Canadian law, then yes. Laws are written and imposed by the government, and a government employee actively supporting the breaking of the law is simply unacceptable. That's not how we do things in Canada.
  - haswell 5y ago
    Can you imagine a scenario where such a donation both: 1) Contributes to a “law breaking” cause 2) Still aligns with your views? It’s easy to talk about the correctness of this when the infringement seems pretty harmful/disruptive. But social change is often messy, and protests often move into a grey area that is not so easy to judge. Whether you agree with this particular action, it raises much bigger questions than the current unfolding event.
    - kstenerud 5y ago
      I can absolutely imagine such a situation, but my position doesn't change. For government, there's only one impartial way to deal with this: Either it's legal, or it isn't. Any moral or ethical judgment will happen later after the movement succeeds or fails, but for the time being you either work with the law, or you leave the government. If you're found to be working against the laws of the land, that's more than ample reason to be kicked out of government.

irthomasthomas 5y ago

There are parallels between this event and the takedown of the British National Party. Around 2009 an insider leaked their member list, in a similar fashion. The same year antifa was activated to protest the BNP. From my recollection, antifa where always considerate enough to inform the police when they planned to protest a protest, or clash with a political group like this. The clashes with police help the story spread. It is the physical manifestation of an ideological conflict. At the time, I was generally supportive of antifa (remember, they where brand new then, although technically founded earlier, they had been dormant for a long time). However, despite the BNP declining into irrelevance after this, they where replaced by UKIP, and the far right, in Britain, has probably never been bigger than it is today. The publicized clashes between antifa and the right, ended up beeing useful recruitment propaganda to both sides. To the people on the right, it was proof that the far left was dangerous and intent on suppressing opposing political views. And vice versa.