5 ms·

"unlawful, illegal occupation" Has it been established that that is what it was? Serious question, I didn't follow the details closely enough.

unethical_ban 5y ago
I think that's important. I don't have citations, but my understanding is that what the truckers are doing directly is illegal, but that police haven't taken action in order to avoid violence or to fuel the grievances of the protesters. Is it illegal or violent to donate to them?
- pletsch 5y ago
  The federal government made it illegal with the emergencies act, this donation almost certainly came before that though. More relevant is that the Ontario government asked a court (which was granted) to freeze all funds related to the convoy. So maybe not illegal as much as just a terrible look for the party.
542458 5y ago
Canada’s protest laws are different (and much more limited) than those of the US. Any protest that significantly disturbs the peace is not protected. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art2c.html https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/chec...
- ktkoffroth 5y ago
  Isn't significantly disturbing the peace kinda the entire point of protest? I would wager many of the protests and demonstrations done during the Civil Rights Movement in the US "significantly disturbed" the peace, and yet they were effective at creating needed change.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    A protest almost by definition is a disturbance of the peace - otherwise it’s just a gathering of like minded people doing something.
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    > Isn't significantly disturbing the peace kinda the entire point of protest? No.
  - 542458 5y ago
    Again, Canada is not the US. > Section 2(c) guarantees the right to peaceful assembly; it does not protect riots and gatherings that seriously disturb the peace: R. v. Lecompte, [2000] J.Q. No. 2452 (Que. C.A.). It has been stated that the right to freedom of assembly, along with freedom of expression, does not include the right to physically impede or blockade lawful activities: Guelph (City) v. Soltys, [2009] O.J. No. 3369 (Ont. Sup. Ct. Jus), at paragraph 26. So an hypothetical protest that, for example, had set up on the lawn of parliament or major’s hill park and did not sound loud horns at random hours of the night would not be dispersed.
    - codechad 5y ago
      - dang 5y ago
        Could you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly, and it's not what this site is for, regardless of the topic or your views on the topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        codechad 5y ago
  - tylersmith 5y ago
- FpUser 5y ago
  I remember when Toronto was suffocating because of garbage removal workers strike. More than that when we finally started to bring garbage to commercial dumping sites those were blocked by strikers and they would allow only few people per hour to make huge line ups. IANAL but this looked like mischief to me. And when people out of frustration had started throwing garbage bags in front of the site bylaw officers were right there issuing big fines. More than that, I tried to talk to strikers and they were fucking boozed up to their gills. That is despite laws against public intoxication. Police were ignoring all of this. So the government was totally fine with strikers "disturbing the peace". From what I see they're very selective on what to enforce and when.
  - nathanaldensr 5y ago
    Exactly. However, in the world of those who long ago fell prey to the "red vs. blue" or "left vs. right" false dichotomies, there is only the question of "what side are you on?" One is not allowed to point out hypocrisy or plausible hypotheticals where the exact same decision-making in the future will be turned against those for whom the decision-making is currently convenient.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
helloooooooo 5y ago
mischief is considered a criminal offence, referring to the deliberate or reckless damage of someone’s property or the act of interfering with someone’s property. So these folks who have been camped in downtown Ottawa, and blockading bridges are in fact committing unlawful acts. And mischief is pretty well the low water mark for what some of these folks are getting charged with

unethical_ban 5y ago

I think that's important. I don't have citations, but my understanding is that what the truckers are doing directly is illegal, but that police haven't taken action in order to avoid violence or to fuel the grievances of the protesters. Is it illegal or violent to donate to them?

pletsch 5y ago
The federal government made it illegal with the emergencies act, this donation almost certainly came before that though. More relevant is that the Ontario government asked a court (which was granted) to freeze all funds related to the convoy. So maybe not illegal as much as just a terrible look for the party.

542458 5y ago

Canada’s protest laws are different (and much more limited) than those of the US. Any protest that significantly disturbs the peace is not protected. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art2c.html https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/chec...

ktkoffroth 5y ago
Isn't significantly disturbing the peace kinda the entire point of protest? I would wager many of the protests and demonstrations done during the Civil Rights Movement in the US "significantly disturbed" the peace, and yet they were effective at creating needed change.
- bombcar 5y ago
  A protest almost by definition is a disturbance of the peace - otherwise it’s just a gathering of like minded people doing something.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  > Isn't significantly disturbing the peace kinda the entire point of protest? No.
- 542458 5y ago
  Again, Canada is not the US. > Section 2(c) guarantees the right to peaceful assembly; it does not protect riots and gatherings that seriously disturb the peace: R. v. Lecompte, [2000] J.Q. No. 2452 (Que. C.A.). It has been stated that the right to freedom of assembly, along with freedom of expression, does not include the right to physically impede or blockade lawful activities: Guelph (City) v. Soltys, [2009] O.J. No. 3369 (Ont. Sup. Ct. Jus), at paragraph 26. So an hypothetical protest that, for example, had set up on the lawn of parliament or major’s hill park and did not sound loud horns at random hours of the night would not be dispersed.
  - codechad 5y ago
    - dang 5y ago
      Could you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly, and it's not what this site is for, regardless of the topic or your views on the topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - codechad 5y ago
- tylersmith 5y ago
FpUser 5y ago
I remember when Toronto was suffocating because of garbage removal workers strike. More than that when we finally started to bring garbage to commercial dumping sites those were blocked by strikers and they would allow only few people per hour to make huge line ups. IANAL but this looked like mischief to me. And when people out of frustration had started throwing garbage bags in front of the site bylaw officers were right there issuing big fines. More than that, I tried to talk to strikers and they were fucking boozed up to their gills. That is despite laws against public intoxication. Police were ignoring all of this. So the government was totally fine with strikers "disturbing the peace". From what I see they're very selective on what to enforce and when.
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  Exactly. However, in the world of those who long ago fell prey to the "red vs. blue" or "left vs. right" false dichotomies, there is only the question of "what side are you on?" One is not allowed to point out hypocrisy or plausible hypotheticals where the exact same decision-making in the future will be turned against those for whom the decision-making is currently convenient.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

helloooooooo 5y ago

mischief is considered a criminal offence, referring to the deliberate or reckless damage of someone’s property or the act of interfering with someone’s property. So these folks who have been camped in downtown Ottawa, and blockading bridges are in fact committing unlawful acts. And mischief is pretty well the low water mark for what some of these folks are getting charged with