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Apple is supposedly discontinuing the iPhone mini though, so presumably the demand isn't really there. I think the big issue with small Android phones is batte

Apple is supposedly discontinuing the iPhone mini though, so presumably the demand isn't really there. I think the big issue with small Android phones is battery life. Apple was already getting some flak for it, and between the SoC and OS, it's a much more power efficient system.

gbear605 5y ago
They’re still keeping the SE line though - a new release is expected in the next couple of months.
- Leherenn 5y ago
  It's the budget line though. Is it small because they want it to be small, or because they're re-using the iPhone 8 tooling, which happened to be small(er)? I still think the fact they're discontinuing their non-budget small offering is pretty significant. If there was a significant market, they would have kept it. Also, presumably, they have better margins on the mini than on the SE so you would expect them to keep the former if possible.
- randallsquared 5y ago
  The SE line has Touch ID, does it not? That's a huge differentiator, and one of the main reasons I switched to Samsung a few years ago. Actually, assuming they keep Touch ID in the SE 3, I might now switch back...
  - iso1210 5y ago
    I'd certainly prefer touchID to faceID on my 12 mini, I'd prefer a headphone socket too, sadly these options aren't available
isoprophlex 5y ago
The mini is said to be superseded by a new SE release coming April..!
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I was under the assumption the SE is a budget phone line to target the $500 price range, while the mini is a premium phone with better features targeting the $1k price range. Also, the 13 mini is far superior to the SE in terms of form factor. The 2020 SE is still way too big.
- Tagbert 5y ago
  There are no credible rumors that the 2022 SE will be anything like the Mini. Most likely is that the SE will get iPhone 13 internals, mainly SOC and camera, and no external changes at all. It’s just a spec bump.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    I expect external change, but going to use old iPhone XR/11 chassis. That's how SE/SE2 made.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
I hope this rumor is false. The 13 mini is the best phone I have used in many, many years.
- iso1210 5y ago
  The 12 mini received a lot of hate, both on HN and in the wider press, and a lot of predictions about how awful it was and how nobody was buying it. "Sorry, small-phone lovers: The iPhone 12 mini was Apple’s 2020 sales flop" [0] "The iPhone 12 Mini May Not Be Long for This World" [1] "Who would pay that for a powerful phone inherently limited by screen size" [2] "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame." [3] Yet they made a 13 mini. It's still a little larger that I'd like, but is is usable unlike the ridiculous sized phones others have. [0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/the-iphone-12-mini-hasnt-sold-well-according-to-multiple-estimates/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/the-iphone-12-mini-h... [1] https://gizmodo.com/the-iphone-12-mini-may-not-be-long-for-this-world-1846220566 https://gizmodo.com/the-iphone-12-mini-may-not-be-long-for-t... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26082294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26082294 [3] https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/Apple-releases-iPod https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/Apple-releases-i...
  - Matthias247 5y ago
    Development for the 13 mini will likely have started way before the 12 mini was launched and sales numbers where available. Besides that they will share a lot of components, which makes development cheaper. Bad sales of a 12 mini will be more likely to affect whether a 14 or 15 mini will be released.
gurkendoktor 5y ago
> presumably the demand isn't really there I loved the 4" iPhone form factor (5, 5S, 5C, 2016 SE), and was really looking forward to the iPhone 12 mini. But the reason I like small phones is because I don't use mine all day, and when I do, I want to do it with one hand. The iPhone mini line is too large for that, and costs almost twice as much as the 2020 iPhone SE. I think the mini series is simply a bad deal. (And that's before I get into my rant about the terrible PWM flicker on OLED iPhones.)
dijit 5y ago
FWIW the iPhone mini isn’t materially smaller than the iPhone 6- which was a phone I had deemed “too large” and clutched to my 5S (and later 5SE) for over 5 years. I’m still using my iPhone 12 mini, but it is larger than I’d like so despite it being “small” it probably isn’t meeting the market for small. Edit: I don’t have the iPhone 6 anymore but I do have the box. Here’s how the mini and the 5S look in the box: https://imgur.com/a/W5b7RDF https://imgur.com/a/W5b7RDF
- Tagbert 5y ago
  Yes, but the original reviews of the 12 Mini all proclaimed that it was too small to useful and had an atrocious battery life. That was during the first COVID lockdown period when people couldn’t got to the store to try things out themselves. In reality the Mini is almost as large as the early iPhone XS (5.4 vs 5.8) and the battery life of the Mini is also better than the XS, but reviewers still exaggerated the difference and proclaimed that the Mini was unusable. The Mini name only helps emphasize this in the public mind. I think by the time the iPhone 13 came out and people were able to try the phones in hand, they has already written the Mini off and saw it as this tiny thing with a terrible battery and decided to not consider it.
  - dijit 5y ago
    Yep. But I’m firmly of the belief that those who strongly disliked the mini were not the target audience. Though I suppose that could be said about anything. Phone reviewers keep going wild for large phones. My “phablet” (oneplus one) looks very normal (edging toward small) these days.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Also everyone addict to phone camera.

gbear605 5y ago

They’re still keeping the SE line though - a new release is expected in the next couple of months.

Leherenn 5y ago
It's the budget line though. Is it small because they want it to be small, or because they're re-using the iPhone 8 tooling, which happened to be small(er)? I still think the fact they're discontinuing their non-budget small offering is pretty significant. If there was a significant market, they would have kept it. Also, presumably, they have better margins on the mini than on the SE so you would expect them to keep the former if possible.
randallsquared 5y ago
The SE line has Touch ID, does it not? That's a huge differentiator, and one of the main reasons I switched to Samsung a few years ago. Actually, assuming they keep Touch ID in the SE 3, I might now switch back...
- iso1210 5y ago
  I'd certainly prefer touchID to faceID on my 12 mini, I'd prefer a headphone socket too, sadly these options aren't available

isoprophlex 5y ago

The mini is said to be superseded by a new SE release coming April..!

lotsofpulp 5y ago
I was under the assumption the SE is a budget phone line to target the $500 price range, while the mini is a premium phone with better features targeting the $1k price range. Also, the 13 mini is far superior to the SE in terms of form factor. The 2020 SE is still way too big.
Tagbert 5y ago
There are no credible rumors that the 2022 SE will be anything like the Mini. Most likely is that the SE will get iPhone 13 internals, mainly SOC and camera, and no external changes at all. It’s just a spec bump.
- fomine3 5y ago
  I expect external change, but going to use old iPhone XR/11 chassis. That's how SE/SE2 made.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

I hope this rumor is false. The 13 mini is the best phone I have used in many, many years.

iso1210 5y ago
The 12 mini received a lot of hate, both on HN and in the wider press, and a lot of predictions about how awful it was and how nobody was buying it. "Sorry, small-phone lovers: The iPhone 12 mini was Apple’s 2020 sales flop" [0] "The iPhone 12 Mini May Not Be Long for This World" [1] "Who would pay that for a powerful phone inherently limited by screen size" [2] "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame." [3] Yet they made a 13 mini. It's still a little larger that I'd like, but is is usable unlike the ridiculous sized phones others have. [0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/the-iphone-12-mini-hasnt-sold-well-according-to-multiple-estimates/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/the-iphone-12-mini-h... [1] https://gizmodo.com/the-iphone-12-mini-may-not-be-long-for-this-world-1846220566 https://gizmodo.com/the-iphone-12-mini-may-not-be-long-for-t... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26082294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26082294 [3] https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/Apple-releases-iPod https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/Apple-releases-i...
- Matthias247 5y ago
  Development for the 13 mini will likely have started way before the 12 mini was launched and sales numbers where available. Besides that they will share a lot of components, which makes development cheaper. Bad sales of a 12 mini will be more likely to affect whether a 14 or 15 mini will be released.

gurkendoktor 5y ago

> presumably the demand isn't really there I loved the 4" iPhone form factor (5, 5S, 5C, 2016 SE), and was really looking forward to the iPhone 12 mini. But the reason I like small phones is because I don't use mine all day, and when I do, I want to do it with one hand. The iPhone mini line is too large for that, and costs almost twice as much as the 2020 iPhone SE. I think the mini series is simply a bad deal. (And that's before I get into my rant about the terrible PWM flicker on OLED iPhones.)

dijit 5y ago

FWIW the iPhone mini isn’t materially smaller than the iPhone 6- which was a phone I had deemed “too large” and clutched to my 5S (and later 5SE) for over 5 years. I’m still using my iPhone 12 mini, but it is larger than I’d like so despite it being “small” it probably isn’t meeting the market for small. Edit: I don’t have the iPhone 6 anymore but I do have the box. Here’s how the mini and the 5S look in the box: https://imgur.com/a/W5b7RDF https://imgur.com/a/W5b7RDF

Tagbert 5y ago
Yes, but the original reviews of the 12 Mini all proclaimed that it was too small to useful and had an atrocious battery life. That was during the first COVID lockdown period when people couldn’t got to the store to try things out themselves. In reality the Mini is almost as large as the early iPhone XS (5.4 vs 5.8) and the battery life of the Mini is also better than the XS, but reviewers still exaggerated the difference and proclaimed that the Mini was unusable. The Mini name only helps emphasize this in the public mind. I think by the time the iPhone 13 came out and people were able to try the phones in hand, they has already written the Mini off and saw it as this tiny thing with a terrible battery and decided to not consider it.
- dijit 5y ago
  Yep. But I’m firmly of the belief that those who strongly disliked the mini were not the target audience. Though I suppose that could be said about anything. Phone reviewers keep going wild for large phones. My “phablet” (oneplus one) looks very normal (edging toward small) these days.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Also everyone addict to phone camera.