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Kosovo is a naive talking point from Putin POV, but it's egregious. Thousands of civilians were being massacred by Serbia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_

Kosovo is a naive talking point from Putin POV, but it's egregious. Thousands of civilians were being massacred by Serbia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War , the current measures are a least worse option to prevent atrocities and killing, in no league similar to Crimea, which is purely a geopolitical chess piece to the Kremlin.

FrenchAmerican 5y ago
Yes, of course we had to intervene to save Kosovars from Serbia's atrocities: no question. I disagree with Putin POV too, but I find it difficult not to remember the arguments the West gave to justify Kosovo's independence. After all, the UN could have seen troops to preserve Kosovars' safety. My point was on the legal basis: can a territory detach itself based on the sole majority of the population living on it? Of course, Putin never asked the people living there what their opinions were. And I'm also flabbergasted when the US denounce the lies that Putin will tell to justify an invasion, since Iraq's invasion was just among the worst set-up ever. We can't have it both ways all the time. After all, far fewer civilian Kosovars were killed without reason than Iraqis by US troops. I'm talking about the civilian casualties here. All the measures to stop Putin invading Ukrain are justified, but I feel that the West gave ground to Putin by its handling of Kosovo and Iraq.
- throwaway_4ever 5y ago
  With respect to Iraq, I agree. It was a sham, rammed on the American public by a small radical contingent (Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc), taking advantage of a fear based climate. Unfortunately, the world has to deal with that America, and doesn’t get to see the full world outcomes of the policies of the true Americans, the 57% of Democrats who voted against that heinous war. For those Democrats and their constituents, there is no cognitive dissonance, confusion, or guilt. Kosovo is not like that egregious mistake. The ideal world is making the Kosovo call and still not having Putin invade. Maybe it provides a slim boost to Russian imperialism, and hindsight could play what if games about letting Kosovo atrocities happen if it meant preventing Ukrainian atrocities. But tbh, it doesn’t move the needle when Russia simply has its objectives in mind and comes up with a laundry list of everything “seemingly” contradictory the West has ever done as their rebuttal. You’d just have some other slightly even more irrelevant “Kosovo issue” taking its place in Putin talking points.

FrenchAmerican 5y ago

Yes, of course we had to intervene to save Kosovars from Serbia's atrocities: no question. I disagree with Putin POV too, but I find it difficult not to remember the arguments the West gave to justify Kosovo's independence. After all, the UN could have seen troops to preserve Kosovars' safety. My point was on the legal basis: can a territory detach itself based on the sole majority of the population living on it? Of course, Putin never asked the people living there what their opinions were. And I'm also flabbergasted when the US denounce the lies that Putin will tell to justify an invasion, since Iraq's invasion was just among the worst set-up ever. We can't have it both ways all the time. After all, far fewer civilian Kosovars were killed without reason than Iraqis by US troops. I'm talking about the civilian casualties here. All the measures to stop Putin invading Ukrain are justified, but I feel that the West gave ground to Putin by its handling of Kosovo and Iraq.

throwaway_4ever 5y ago
With respect to Iraq, I agree. It was a sham, rammed on the American public by a small radical contingent (Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc), taking advantage of a fear based climate. Unfortunately, the world has to deal with that America, and doesn’t get to see the full world outcomes of the policies of the true Americans, the 57% of Democrats who voted against that heinous war. For those Democrats and their constituents, there is no cognitive dissonance, confusion, or guilt. Kosovo is not like that egregious mistake. The ideal world is making the Kosovo call and still not having Putin invade. Maybe it provides a slim boost to Russian imperialism, and hindsight could play what if games about letting Kosovo atrocities happen if it meant preventing Ukrainian atrocities. But tbh, it doesn’t move the needle when Russia simply has its objectives in mind and comes up with a laundry list of everything “seemingly” contradictory the West has ever done as their rebuttal. You’d just have some other slightly even more irrelevant “Kosovo issue” taking its place in Putin talking points.