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Got it. So how should people get to their jobs at the farms? Or the mines? Or the oil fields? Or the factories? Or the mills?

jmknoll 5y ago
For sure rural jobs aren’t a great fit for public transportation. But most people commuting to work by car are commuting to offices, retail stores, restaurants, and other places in semi-densely populated areas that could be better served by public transit.
- settrans 5y ago
  OK, then how do people commute to their jobs (restaurants, shoe stores, or schools) in the small towns that support farms, mines, factories or mills?
  - nanomonkey 5y ago
    At human speeds: walk, bike, tractor, hitch a ride on a lorry (max speed 45mph), horse. Trains are useful for connecting longer distances at specific times of the day (commuting). Highways create an artificial monopoly on travel. You cannot easily travel along them, or cross them if you can't drive over 45mph. This speed is only getting higher. There are studies showing that travel has actually gone down in areas like Mexico with the addition of modern Highways. The poor just can't participate.
    - giardini 5y ago
      nanomonkey says>"There are studies showing that travel has actually gone down in areas like Mexico with the addition of modern Highways. The poor just can't participate."< More likely the poor used the highway once - to get out of the country and to the city. It isn't that they "can't participate", it's that they are gone.
  - jmknoll 5y ago
    I didn't mention small towns. My concern is primarily with the large cities in the United States that have functionally useless or second-class public transportation systems. Places like Phoenix, Houston, and Los Angeles that collectively house tens of millions of people in sufficient density for public transit, but lack effective systems due to poor planning, corruption, and lack of creative problem solving. Of course there are use-cases for cars, nobody suggested that there aren't. The problem is that the United States in particular has assumed that every transportation issue is best solved with cars.
ajuc 5y ago
I mean factories and mines usually have A LOT of public transport options. That's a no-brainer, really. Guaranteed thousands of customers at guaranteed schedules.
SantalBlush 5y ago
>how should people get to their jobs at the farms? Or the mines? Or the oil fields? Or the factories? Or the mills Or how do astronauts get to the ISS? Checkmate. Transportation infrastructure bad.
fknorangesite 5y ago
Okay? So keep the car-centered infrastructure where you genuinely need it, and you can still have the huge net benefit of reliable public transit for the other 80% of people. A solution doesn't need to be 100% perfect for every situation in order for it to still be worthwhile.

jmknoll 5y ago

For sure rural jobs aren’t a great fit for public transportation. But most people commuting to work by car are commuting to offices, retail stores, restaurants, and other places in semi-densely populated areas that could be better served by public transit.

settrans 5y ago
OK, then how do people commute to their jobs (restaurants, shoe stores, or schools) in the small towns that support farms, mines, factories or mills?
- nanomonkey 5y ago
  At human speeds: walk, bike, tractor, hitch a ride on a lorry (max speed 45mph), horse. Trains are useful for connecting longer distances at specific times of the day (commuting). Highways create an artificial monopoly on travel. You cannot easily travel along them, or cross them if you can't drive over 45mph. This speed is only getting higher. There are studies showing that travel has actually gone down in areas like Mexico with the addition of modern Highways. The poor just can't participate.
  - giardini 5y ago
    nanomonkey says>"There are studies showing that travel has actually gone down in areas like Mexico with the addition of modern Highways. The poor just can't participate."< More likely the poor used the highway once - to get out of the country and to the city. It isn't that they "can't participate", it's that they are gone.
- jmknoll 5y ago
  I didn't mention small towns. My concern is primarily with the large cities in the United States that have functionally useless or second-class public transportation systems. Places like Phoenix, Houston, and Los Angeles that collectively house tens of millions of people in sufficient density for public transit, but lack effective systems due to poor planning, corruption, and lack of creative problem solving. Of course there are use-cases for cars, nobody suggested that there aren't. The problem is that the United States in particular has assumed that every transportation issue is best solved with cars.

ajuc 5y ago

I mean factories and mines usually have A LOT of public transport options. That's a no-brainer, really. Guaranteed thousands of customers at guaranteed schedules.

SantalBlush 5y ago

>how should people get to their jobs at the farms? Or the mines? Or the oil fields? Or the factories? Or the mills Or how do astronauts get to the ISS? Checkmate. Transportation infrastructure bad.

fknorangesite 5y ago

Okay? So keep the car-centered infrastructure where you genuinely need it, and you can still have the huge net benefit of reliable public transit for the other 80% of people. A solution doesn't need to be 100% perfect for every situation in order for it to still be worthwhile.