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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident The narrative I’ve heard is that the Japanese internment was do

by jmpman 5y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident The narrative I’ve heard is that the Japanese internment was done solely due to racism. Yet, in the first incident where Japanese American citizens are confronted with the option of helping Japan or helping America, both Japanese Americans side with Japan. This incident is suppressed as it doesn’t fit with the narrative that the internment was done solely due to racism. The Japanese American National Museum in Los Angeles has a fantastic display on the internment camps, and yet doesn’t once mention the Nihau incident. However the museum spends many sections explaining how the internment was driven due to racist farmers wanting Japanese American farm land. The plane from the incident was donated to a museum, and it appears that the late Senator Inouye prevented it from being displayed. Yes the internment was a horrible event in American history, and we should all try to keep it from happening again. But I’m disappointed when I repeatedly see evidence of the Niihau incident attempting to be erased from history because it doesn’t fit a narrative.

lazyant 5y ago
I don't disagree but are there any other instances where Japanese Americans had to choose? Also how many Americans would side with the Nazis? there was a Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden a few years before and the government didn't put German-Americans in concentration camps so racism seems to have played a part too.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- YATA0 5y ago
  >the government didn't put German-Americans in concentration camps so racism seems to have played a part too. This is factually incorrect: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_America...
  - lazyant 5y ago
    Your own quoted article says "1.2 million persons had been born in Germany, 5 million had two native-German parents, and 6 million had one native-German parent." "Many more had distant German ancestry. During WWII, the United States detained at least 11,000 ethnic Germans, overwhelmingly German nationals.[3] The government examined the cases of German nationals individually, and detained relatively few in internment camps". So millions with German ancestry, detained some who were German nationals and only a few in internment camps.
    - YATA0 5y ago
      I can hear the goalposts screeching from all the way over here. >detained some who were German nationals and only a few in internment camps. Not just detained some, Germans accounted for "36.1% of the total internments under the US Justice Department's Enemy Alien Control Program." Nonetheless, you specifically stated: "the government didn't put German-Americans in concentration camps" which is absolutely, 100% a factually incorrect statement. Take the L with grace after being proven wrong.
      - lazyant 5y ago
        I can't edit my post for correctness but my point stands, you are mentioning _German_ nationals detained and we (or at least I) were talking about American citizens (Japanese- and German-Americans), who's moving the posts.
        YATA0 5y ago
        >but my point stands No it doesn't. Your point is ahistorical and factually incorrect. >you are mentioning _German_ nationals detained No I'm not. The first fucking sentence of the Wikipedia article reads "Internment of German resident aliens and German-American citizens"... German-American CITIZENS. Again, take the L and stop replyguying. You moved the goal posts and are hilariously still wrong. You're fractally wrong. Stop it.
mindslight 5y ago
Racism justified by pragmatism is still racism. In fact, I'd say the majority of racism is backed up by some kind of pragmatic reasoning. It's the paradigm of grouping of individuals by their "race" to begin with that makes for racism. If one takes a Japanese American citizen, who has committed no crime, and imprisons them based on their ethnicity, then their imprisonment is indeed "solely due to racism". You're presenting a false dichotomy and validating the justification for their imprisonment, for what?
robertn702 5y ago
You're arguing that an incident involving three individuals of Japanese descent in Hawaii, a US territory at the time, somehow justifies sending almost the entirety of the Japanese Americans to internment camps. I don't think this story is being suppressed, it seems insignificant. Can you imagine if the story read, "Three Puerto Rican residents of German descent — two of which immigrated to Puerto Rico from Germany — helped a Nazi pilot after crash landing his plane. Therefore the US Government has decided to send all German Americans across the continental US to internment camps."? This is just a bad take.
- YATA0 5y ago
  German-Americans were also subjected to internment[0], even from Latin America. Your premise is wrong. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_America...
- jmpman 5y ago
  From the Wikipedia article I’d cited: Historian Gordon Prange notes that "the rapidity with which the three resident Japanese went over to the pilot's cause" troubled the Hawaiians and added: "The more pessimistic among them cited the Niʻihau incident as proof that no one could trust any Japanese, even if an American citizen, not to go over to Japan if it appeared expedient."[16] Novelist William Hallstead argues that the Niʻihau incident influenced decisions leading to the Japanese American internment on the continental United States. According to Hallstead, the behavior of Shintani and the Haradas was included in an official Navy report dated January 26, 1942. The report's author Navy Lieutenant C. B. Baldwin wrote: "The fact that the two Niʻihau Japanese who had previously shown no anti-American tendencies went to the aid of the pilot when Japanese domination of the island seemed possible, indicate[s] [the] likelihood that Japanese residents previously believed loyal to the United States may aid Japan if further Japanese attacks appear successful." So, this incident, according to historians, is cited as the reason for the internment. Yet, in museums dedicated to the Japanese American experience, this isn’t mentioned anywhere. So, I’m not saying it justifies sending almost the entirety of the Japanese American to internment camps. Im saying that it was a major justification on sending almost the entirety of Japanese Americans to internment camps, and that information is being repressed in favor of a narrative that the internment was entirely due to racism.

by jmpman 5y ago

lazyant 5y ago

I don't disagree but are there any other instances where Japanese Americans had to choose? Also how many Americans would side with the Nazis? there was a Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden a few years before and the government didn't put German-Americans in concentration camps so racism seems to have played a part too.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
YATA0 5y ago
>the government didn't put German-Americans in concentration camps so racism seems to have played a part too. This is factually incorrect: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_America...
- lazyant 5y ago
  Your own quoted article says "1.2 million persons had been born in Germany, 5 million had two native-German parents, and 6 million had one native-German parent." "Many more had distant German ancestry. During WWII, the United States detained at least 11,000 ethnic Germans, overwhelmingly German nationals.[3] The government examined the cases of German nationals individually, and detained relatively few in internment camps". So millions with German ancestry, detained some who were German nationals and only a few in internment camps.
  - YATA0 5y ago
    I can hear the goalposts screeching from all the way over here. >detained some who were German nationals and only a few in internment camps. Not just detained some, Germans accounted for "36.1% of the total internments under the US Justice Department's Enemy Alien Control Program." Nonetheless, you specifically stated: "the government didn't put German-Americans in concentration camps" which is absolutely, 100% a factually incorrect statement. Take the L with grace after being proven wrong.
    - lazyant 5y ago
      I can't edit my post for correctness but my point stands, you are mentioning _German_ nationals detained and we (or at least I) were talking about American citizens (Japanese- and German-Americans), who's moving the posts.
      - YATA0 5y ago
        >but my point stands No it doesn't. Your point is ahistorical and factually incorrect. >you are mentioning _German_ nationals detained No I'm not. The first fucking sentence of the Wikipedia article reads "Internment of German resident aliens and German-American citizens"... German-American CITIZENS. Again, take the L and stop replyguying. You moved the goal posts and are hilariously still wrong. You're fractally wrong. Stop it.

mindslight 5y ago

Racism justified by pragmatism is still racism. In fact, I'd say the majority of racism is backed up by some kind of pragmatic reasoning. It's the paradigm of grouping of individuals by their "race" to begin with that makes for racism. If one takes a Japanese American citizen, who has committed no crime, and imprisons them based on their ethnicity, then their imprisonment is indeed "solely due to racism". You're presenting a false dichotomy and validating the justification for their imprisonment, for what?

robertn702 5y ago

You're arguing that an incident involving three individuals of Japanese descent in Hawaii, a US territory at the time, somehow justifies sending almost the entirety of the Japanese Americans to internment camps. I don't think this story is being suppressed, it seems insignificant. Can you imagine if the story read, "Three Puerto Rican residents of German descent — two of which immigrated to Puerto Rico from Germany — helped a Nazi pilot after crash landing his plane. Therefore the US Government has decided to send all German Americans across the continental US to internment camps."? This is just a bad take.

YATA0 5y ago
German-Americans were also subjected to internment[0], even from Latin America. Your premise is wrong. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_America...
jmpman 5y ago
From the Wikipedia article I’d cited: Historian Gordon Prange notes that "the rapidity with which the three resident Japanese went over to the pilot's cause" troubled the Hawaiians and added: "The more pessimistic among them cited the Niʻihau incident as proof that no one could trust any Japanese, even if an American citizen, not to go over to Japan if it appeared expedient."[16] Novelist William Hallstead argues that the Niʻihau incident influenced decisions leading to the Japanese American internment on the continental United States. According to Hallstead, the behavior of Shintani and the Haradas was included in an official Navy report dated January 26, 1942. The report's author Navy Lieutenant C. B. Baldwin wrote: "The fact that the two Niʻihau Japanese who had previously shown no anti-American tendencies went to the aid of the pilot when Japanese domination of the island seemed possible, indicate[s] [the] likelihood that Japanese residents previously believed loyal to the United States may aid Japan if further Japanese attacks appear successful." So, this incident, according to historians, is cited as the reason for the internment. Yet, in museums dedicated to the Japanese American experience, this isn’t mentioned anywhere. So, I’m not saying it justifies sending almost the entirety of the Japanese American to internment camps. Im saying that it was a major justification on sending almost the entirety of Japanese Americans to internment camps, and that information is being repressed in favor of a narrative that the internment was entirely due to racism.