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> The evidence does not suggest an average worker will drop out of the labor force when provided with unconditional cash Ok, that's fair. So the average income

> The evidence does not suggest an average worker will drop out of the labor force when provided with unconditional cash Ok, that's fair. So the average income earner won't stop working. But what about the bottom end of the spectrum i.e someone just above UBI but who has to get up early and travel two hours each way to get to work, or who is just working to put food on the table - with UBI they now have a great reason to stay home. So... what happens if a good chunk of people earning just above UBI rates just stops working because it's just not worth the ROI. You've ended up creating a vacuum which has to be filled. And how do you fill it? Traditionally you either import cheap labor or raise pay to incentivise applicants. Congratulations, you've just started the inflation engine.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
Where is your evidence for all of this? I showed you mine. Your turn. These are all just talking points.
- alfiedotwtf 5y ago
  I showed you mine > The evidence does not suggest an average worker will drop out of the labor force That's for the average worker. Show me what happens at the lower scale. Sorry, I'm not going to read a 25 page report right now, but as this does interest me, I am going to put this in my TOREAD list - genuinely, thanks for the link. Edit: if you want evidence of disincentivising workers when there's no-questions-asked government handouts, look at food aid programs in Africa. There's no point to be a farmer when Free is your competition. https://cals.arizona.edu/classes/arec514/groupproject/does%20food%20aid%20have%20disincen.pdf https://cals.arizona.edu/classes/arec514/groupproject/does%2...
notreallyserio 5y ago
Perhaps the person who has to travel 2 hours to get to work would be able to afford to earn lower wages at a closer job. And then perhaps someone that lives closer to the job site would take the other persons original job.
zozbot234 5y ago
There's no such thing as "just above" with UBI; the whole point is that you get to keep a non-negligible fraction of whatever you earn, no matter what. It only makes it easier for folks to join and stay in the workforce, even if all they can get is a marginal job.
- alfiedotwtf 5y ago
  > the whole point is that you get to keep a non-negligible fraction of whatever you earn Australia already has this - you can earn up to (somewhere around) $18k per year and you won't get taxed. This applies to everyone. Is this what you're talking about? Because as far as I can see, there are still people under the poverty line here. But if you're not talking about that, and you're saying that ALL should get $18k (for example) no questions asked, when someone earned $19k before UBI, do they now do the same hours for $1k, or do they keep their whole $19k? If the former, why bother working, but if the latter, you've now just given them $36k not $18k.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago

Where is your evidence for all of this? I showed you mine. Your turn. These are all just talking points.

alfiedotwtf 5y ago
I showed you mine > The evidence does not suggest an average worker will drop out of the labor force That's for the average worker. Show me what happens at the lower scale. Sorry, I'm not going to read a 25 page report right now, but as this does interest me, I am going to put this in my TOREAD list - genuinely, thanks for the link. Edit: if you want evidence of disincentivising workers when there's no-questions-asked government handouts, look at food aid programs in Africa. There's no point to be a farmer when Free is your competition. https://cals.arizona.edu/classes/arec514/groupproject/does%20food%20aid%20have%20disincen.pdf https://cals.arizona.edu/classes/arec514/groupproject/does%2...

notreallyserio 5y ago

Perhaps the person who has to travel 2 hours to get to work would be able to afford to earn lower wages at a closer job. And then perhaps someone that lives closer to the job site would take the other persons original job.

zozbot234 5y ago

There's no such thing as "just above" with UBI; the whole point is that you get to keep a non-negligible fraction of whatever you earn, no matter what. It only makes it easier for folks to join and stay in the workforce, even if all they can get is a marginal job.

alfiedotwtf 5y ago
> the whole point is that you get to keep a non-negligible fraction of whatever you earn Australia already has this - you can earn up to (somewhere around) $18k per year and you won't get taxed. This applies to everyone. Is this what you're talking about? Because as far as I can see, there are still people under the poverty line here. But if you're not talking about that, and you're saying that ALL should get $18k (for example) no questions asked, when someone earned $19k before UBI, do they now do the same hours for $1k, or do they keep their whole $19k? If the former, why bother working, but if the latter, you've now just given them $36k not $18k.