6 ms·

Help HN: Can't open childhood files

79 points by twooclock 5y ago

Hello HN, I was clearing my old house and got a box with a 100+ 3½ floppy disks. All except one working! Among others I got DisplayWriter 4.0, OS/4 Warp Slovenian, dBase IV, Clipper, PowerPoint 4.0, Netscape Navigator 3.0, etc. I found also some files with .CHT and .IMG extension which I can't find any software to open them. I know I made them, but unfortunately I can't remember which software was used. There is my family tree and chart of my height growing (which I'd like to compare now with my kids). Some files I uploaded here: https://github.com/twooclock/KdajBi/tree/main/cht_img https://github.com/twooclock/KdajBi/tree/main/cht_img Files timestamp is 1990 and 1991. Please help me find appropriate software! So far I tried (does not work): -ABC Flowcharter 3.01 -IBM Storyboard Plus 1.01 (5.25) -Harvard Graphics for Windows 4.0 -Harvard Graphics for Windows 2.0 (3.5) -HarvardGraphicsViewer -PowerPoint 98 Googled, checked file.org, WinWorld, ... loosing hope... really makes me think about digital preservation. Thank you!

mastasky 5y ago
The files you posted hold no information about their type in the headers. So it's impossible to figure out. BEATLES and MARLEY and simple lists of songs. LINEN.IMG contains information in Slovenian about methods of solving a graphical algebraic table. KASETA is more obscure, doesn't contain readable information I can extract.
- franciscop 5y ago
  Exactly, an in any case looking at the binary with a text editor, KASETA.IMG at only 1kb and a lot of it just being long strings of "1" I'm pretty sure won't be an image format, at best it could be some info for some tree-like software but def not a pixel-data image.
  - twooclock 5y ago
    Will try with dBase. Thank you.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    Kaseta - is that magnetic cassette? The file could be an image of a cassette, like you can dd a disk to image file today.
    - twooclock 5y ago
      yes. It should be casette inline. I must have printed it out, cut and glue to an empty casette. Those were the days!
  - zaxomi 5y ago
    To me KASETA.IMG looks exactly like an binary pixel image, maybe monochrome, where every bit represents a pixel. The part where you see 1.1.1 is actually like this in hex: 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02
    - pdw 5y ago
      I suspect it's some sort of color ASCII art format. Character/attribute pairs with probably some control information. That explains why the other files have readable text.
jesprenj 5y ago
Try using binwalk, file(1) or strings(1) to get some information about the contents of the files ... try searching found strings on Google, etc. Good luck! --- Edit: Those four files are really small and I can't see any person's names in them when just opening them as plaintext files, but LINEN contains some instructions for solving math systems of equations: "sistem dveh linearnih enačb z dvema neznankama. Možne rešitve". Other files seem like a listing for a music album (MARLEY: 01. No woman no cry) and possibly lyrics or something in BEATLES (eight days a week she loves you, ... Maybe something for a karaoke program). KASETA is also really short and contains no text - maybe some chiptone music, but that's just a silly guess. To correct myself: binwalk, file and strings do not help you here. It's not even ASCII text.
- rzzzt 5y ago
  BEATLES has "Stran A:", "Stran B:", and "a hard days night" in the first few bytes, the ASCII characters are interspersed with NUL (0x00) ACK (0x06) and SOH (0x01) bytes. Edit: it might be for a cassette inlay printing/catalogue software like the following (not _exactly_ this, though): https://www.jonessoft.co.uk/inlayprint.html https://www.jonessoft.co.uk/inlayprint.html Edit2: maybe they are screen memory dumps from 0xB8000 with color bytes after character codes?
  - twooclock 5y ago
    Thank you. I know the contents but I'd like to open them and see the outline. They should both be somekind of images. You guessed right kaseta was probaby for a type recorder cassete inlay. Was doing some recording back then. Unfortunately can't find original software.
- TacticalCoder 5y ago
  The "identify" command is also worth a try should some a files be graphical. Not too sure if very old graphical format are supported by "identify" but it's worth a try.
zxcvbn4038 5y ago
Netscape! The pulsating throbbing N is back. I think you need to lock that disk in a box with a sprig of sage and seal it with wax. I think the CHT files are dbase databases. IMG could be anything, lots of programs used that extension. You’ll need to get in with a hex editor and look for clues.
- rzzzt 5y ago
  WinWorld got that one: https://winworldpc.com/product/netscape-navigator/30x https://winworldpc.com/product/netscape-navigator/30x The page also has a link to a delightfully looking archive of Netscape browsers: https://sillydog.org/narchive/ https://sillydog.org/narchive/
- twooclock 5y ago
  > I think you need to lock that disk in a box with a sprig of sage and seal it with wax. Sure since I have original black floppies with gold Netscape rudder! Will do. Unfortunately hex editor shows nothing.
mod 5y ago
Just a thought: maybe Netscape, or some of the other software on your disks can open the files. Import to PowerPoint or something.
da768 5y ago
CHT, other than Harvard ChartXL, looks like some printers support it. Could be worth trying to raw print it? Now maybe that floppy disk has corruption. (You could check if you get the same byte-for-byte output using another drive or give a run of GRC SpinRite worst case) All the repetitive '31 02' in both CHT and IMG files make it look like it comes from the same app suite or it's just data loss somehow. KASETA has interesting patterns in a raw pixel viewer, RGB32, 15 pixels wide, but LINEN doesn't seem to be an image. Tried opening this with Corel Draw, Ventura Publisher or else ?
- twooclock 5y ago
  >Tried opening this with Corel Draw, Ventura Publisher or else ? No, but ChartViewer dBASE Interface seems promising since I was using dBase+Clipper at the time. I can remember what software I was using for it... :(
twooclock 5y ago
OP here. Both filetypes cht and img are "images", because I remember printing them out. Cht should be somekind of chart with boxes, lines and text. Img should be an image? It's way far back so I don't trust my memory.
bhbh 5y ago
It might be a long shot, but if you do think that some of those files might be images, you can try dumping their contents as hex and then use an online hex-to-image converter and see if this produces anything useful.
BaldricksGhost 5y ago
This makes me feel old. We had no "files" when I was a kid except the kind that were on paper. Best of luck.
- 15characterslon 5y ago
  It's funny you say that because kids today don't really have files either, since all the content is confined in apps.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    Kids today are sending around Word, PowerPoint, PDF and other files all the time, as part of school (at least where I live, in EU).
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      Maybe 5 years ago that was true. Now everything happens in Google docs & friends (at least near me in the USA).
- twooclock 5y ago
  No worries! I have some c64 programs listings printed! We're not old, expirienced is the word I belive! :)
19wintersp 5y ago
MARLEY seems to have more in common with KASETA, even though they have different file endings. `AA::` and `BB::`, a large section of `- - -`... and second byte alternation are present near the start of both, as well as the large section of `1`s (assuming this is all in ASCII). Are they all the same file format? I'm guessing they're all from a word processor at this point - Text602 is a shot in the dark from a vague link on Wikipedia - and I think the file is structured as pairs of bytes, with the first being some data, and the latter being a presentation attribute. For example, I'm guessing from LINEN that `0x06` indicates superscript.
beecafe 5y ago
Try opening them in an image viewer as a RAW file, mess around with the width and height and try to spot some patterns.
- twooclock 5y ago
  No luck. Contains some null chars and text. I'm guessing it was some sw to draw diagrams (boxes, lines and text). Unfortunately I can't remember even if it was dos or win. Was always sure that I'll google it out, now not so sure anymore.
BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
Do you recall what kind of machine and operating system these disks were originally written with? You might have some luck with a local retro computing group. I don’t know much about digital preservation and old school storage media, but maybe there was a quirk with how the data was originally written on that specific disk that you just need a retro computer to untangle?
- twooclock 5y ago
  It was either DOS or early Windows. Thats for sure. I'll try DisplayWriter4. It's extensions were .doc dough.
shimonabi 5y ago
ChartViewer dBASE Interface
- twooclock 5y ago
  This one sound like it. Do you know what software, how to install? Goo already. Thank you.
bombcar 5y ago
Could CHT be something like PCL line drawing commands or similar?
awhitby 5y ago
I would guess the CHT files are commands for text output on a dot matrix printer, or a format pretty close to that. * The MARLEY songs are laid out in two columns (side A, side B) from left to right then top to bottom, which suggests its pretty close to a matrix of characters, rather than something more abstract/structured. * Every character is taking up two bytes, which could be some Slovenian encoding but I doubt any European language was taking up 16 bits in the early 1990s, which makes me think every second character is a formatting for the character that precedes or follows it. * The MARLEY title has a repetitions like "BBoobb MMaarrlleeyy" which might be the kind of overprint mode I remember dot matrixes having, where the printer prints a character then goes back and reprints it, to get a bold effect. I would dig around for old dot matrix standards, Epson and so on.
- ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
  I think you nailed it re overprinting.
thatannoyingguy 5y ago
I don't know if you found the program for your family tree or if you inferred that from the filename, but you could try this one: Sierra Generations Family Tree, which uses the CHT format. Do you recall using that piece of software?
- twooclock 5y ago
  No. Is it from 1990? I remember more of like some charting or diagram software.
scrumper 5y ago
Your IMG might be from Gem Paint? I remember that extension from my first computer, and that's what we used. It's about the right age. EDIT: Ugh, maybe not, I looked at LINEN.IMG and there's a lot of text in there.
phaedrus 5y ago
My first programming environment was dBASE II! Would have been cool if these were dBASE databases and I could have helped, but then again I have neither the software anymore nor knowledge of the raw binary format.
ChrisArchitect 5y ago
OS/4 Warp?! was that a thing?! sorry just jumped out at me
- twooclock 5y ago
  Sorry it was OS/2 4.0 Warp. I stand corrected. I worked on it's translation. Was superb against win 3.1 at the time but users choose other way...
awhitby 5y ago
I will try to message this directly, since this thread is old now: I solved this, figuring out the file structure and encoding from the examples. I was totally wrong about the printer idea I suggested in another reply. MARLEY.CHT, for example, looks something like this: ╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ╠════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╣ ║ BBoobb MMaarrlleeyy && TThhee WWaaiilleerrss ║ ║ BBoobb MMaarrlleeyy && TThhee WWaaiilleerrss ║ ║ LLeeggeenndd ║ ╠═════════════════════════════╦══════════════════════════════╣ ║AA:: ║BB:: ║ ║AA:: ║BB:: ║ ║- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -║- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ║ ║1.No woman no cry ║1.Three little birds ║ ║ ║ ║ ║2.One love/people get ready ║2.Buffalo soldier ║ ║ ║ ║ ║3.Is this love ║3.Waiting in a vain ║ etc. You can see all the files and the code that made them here: https://github.com/econandrew/hn_mystery_files https://github.com/econandrew/hn_mystery_files This was a strangely satisfying task. I hope I can help the OP recover their more important files too.
RonaldOlzheim 5y ago
Do you still need some help?
- twooclock 5y ago
  It would be nice if I got original software files were made with. Still looking for ChartViewer for dBase interface (?).
jbullock35 5y ago
A shareware (freeware?) program called Graphics Workshop was popular in the 1990s and available from many BBSs. For example, you can get it at http://files.mpoli.fi/software/WIN32/GRAPHICS/ http://files.mpoli.fi/software/WIN32/GRAPHICS/. I mention it because it supports an IMG image format.

79 points by twooclock 5y ago

mastasky 5y ago

The files you posted hold no information about their type in the headers. So it's impossible to figure out. BEATLES and MARLEY and simple lists of songs. LINEN.IMG contains information in Slovenian about methods of solving a graphical algebraic table. KASETA is more obscure, doesn't contain readable information I can extract.

franciscop 5y ago
Exactly, an in any case looking at the binary with a text editor, KASETA.IMG at only 1kb and a lot of it just being long strings of "1" I'm pretty sure won't be an image format, at best it could be some info for some tree-like software but def not a pixel-data image.
- twooclock 5y ago
  Will try with dBase. Thank you.
- emteycz 5y ago
  Kaseta - is that magnetic cassette? The file could be an image of a cassette, like you can dd a disk to image file today.
  - twooclock 5y ago
    yes. It should be casette inline. I must have printed it out, cut and glue to an empty casette. Those were the days!
- zaxomi 5y ago
  To me KASETA.IMG looks exactly like an binary pixel image, maybe monochrome, where every bit represents a pixel. The part where you see 1.1.1 is actually like this in hex: 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02 31 02
  - pdw 5y ago
    I suspect it's some sort of color ASCII art format. Character/attribute pairs with probably some control information. That explains why the other files have readable text.

jesprenj 5y ago

Try using binwalk, file(1) or strings(1) to get some information about the contents of the files ... try searching found strings on Google, etc. Good luck! --- Edit: Those four files are really small and I can't see any person's names in them when just opening them as plaintext files, but LINEN contains some instructions for solving math systems of equations: "sistem dveh linearnih enačb z dvema neznankama. Možne rešitve". Other files seem like a listing for a music album (MARLEY: 01. No woman no cry) and possibly lyrics or something in BEATLES (eight days a week she loves you, ... Maybe something for a karaoke program). KASETA is also really short and contains no text - maybe some chiptone music, but that's just a silly guess. To correct myself: binwalk, file and strings do not help you here. It's not even ASCII text.

rzzzt 5y ago
BEATLES has "Stran A:", "Stran B:", and "a hard days night" in the first few bytes, the ASCII characters are interspersed with NUL (0x00) ACK (0x06) and SOH (0x01) bytes. Edit: it might be for a cassette inlay printing/catalogue software like the following (not _exactly_ this, though): https://www.jonessoft.co.uk/inlayprint.html https://www.jonessoft.co.uk/inlayprint.html Edit2: maybe they are screen memory dumps from 0xB8000 with color bytes after character codes?
- twooclock 5y ago
  Thank you. I know the contents but I'd like to open them and see the outline. They should both be somekind of images. You guessed right kaseta was probaby for a type recorder cassete inlay. Was doing some recording back then. Unfortunately can't find original software.
TacticalCoder 5y ago
The "identify" command is also worth a try should some a files be graphical. Not too sure if very old graphical format are supported by "identify" but it's worth a try.

zxcvbn4038 5y ago

Netscape! The pulsating throbbing N is back. I think you need to lock that disk in a box with a sprig of sage and seal it with wax. I think the CHT files are dbase databases. IMG could be anything, lots of programs used that extension. You’ll need to get in with a hex editor and look for clues.

rzzzt 5y ago
WinWorld got that one: https://winworldpc.com/product/netscape-navigator/30x https://winworldpc.com/product/netscape-navigator/30x The page also has a link to a delightfully looking archive of Netscape browsers: https://sillydog.org/narchive/ https://sillydog.org/narchive/
twooclock 5y ago
> I think you need to lock that disk in a box with a sprig of sage and seal it with wax. Sure since I have original black floppies with gold Netscape rudder! Will do. Unfortunately hex editor shows nothing.

mod 5y ago

Just a thought: maybe Netscape, or some of the other software on your disks can open the files. Import to PowerPoint or something.

da768 5y ago

CHT, other than Harvard ChartXL, looks like some printers support it. Could be worth trying to raw print it? Now maybe that floppy disk has corruption. (You could check if you get the same byte-for-byte output using another drive or give a run of GRC SpinRite worst case) All the repetitive '31 02' in both CHT and IMG files make it look like it comes from the same app suite or it's just data loss somehow. KASETA has interesting patterns in a raw pixel viewer, RGB32, 15 pixels wide, but LINEN doesn't seem to be an image. Tried opening this with Corel Draw, Ventura Publisher or else ?

twooclock 5y ago
>Tried opening this with Corel Draw, Ventura Publisher or else ? No, but ChartViewer dBASE Interface seems promising since I was using dBase+Clipper at the time. I can remember what software I was using for it... :(

twooclock 5y ago

OP here. Both filetypes cht and img are "images", because I remember printing them out. Cht should be somekind of chart with boxes, lines and text. Img should be an image? It's way far back so I don't trust my memory.

bhbh 5y ago

It might be a long shot, but if you do think that some of those files might be images, you can try dumping their contents as hex and then use an online hex-to-image converter and see if this produces anything useful.

BaldricksGhost 5y ago

This makes me feel old. We had no "files" when I was a kid except the kind that were on paper. Best of luck.

15characterslon 5y ago
It's funny you say that because kids today don't really have files either, since all the content is confined in apps.
- emteycz 5y ago
  Kids today are sending around Word, PowerPoint, PDF and other files all the time, as part of school (at least where I live, in EU).
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    Maybe 5 years ago that was true. Now everything happens in Google docs & friends (at least near me in the USA).
twooclock 5y ago
No worries! I have some c64 programs listings printed! We're not old, expirienced is the word I belive! :)

19wintersp 5y ago

MARLEY seems to have more in common with KASETA, even though they have different file endings. `AA::` and `BB::`, a large section of `- - -`... and second byte alternation are present near the start of both, as well as the large section of `1`s (assuming this is all in ASCII). Are they all the same file format? I'm guessing they're all from a word processor at this point - Text602 is a shot in the dark from a vague link on Wikipedia - and I think the file is structured as pairs of bytes, with the first being some data, and the latter being a presentation attribute. For example, I'm guessing from LINEN that `0x06` indicates superscript.

beecafe 5y ago

Try opening them in an image viewer as a RAW file, mess around with the width and height and try to spot some patterns.

twooclock 5y ago
No luck. Contains some null chars and text. I'm guessing it was some sw to draw diagrams (boxes, lines and text). Unfortunately I can't remember even if it was dos or win. Was always sure that I'll google it out, now not so sure anymore.

BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago

Do you recall what kind of machine and operating system these disks were originally written with? You might have some luck with a local retro computing group. I don’t know much about digital preservation and old school storage media, but maybe there was a quirk with how the data was originally written on that specific disk that you just need a retro computer to untangle?

twooclock 5y ago
It was either DOS or early Windows. Thats for sure. I'll try DisplayWriter4. It's extensions were .doc dough.

shimonabi 5y ago

ChartViewer dBASE Interface

twooclock 5y ago
This one sound like it. Do you know what software, how to install? Goo already. Thank you.

bombcar 5y ago

Could CHT be something like PCL line drawing commands or similar?

awhitby 5y ago

I would guess the CHT files are commands for text output on a dot matrix printer, or a format pretty close to that. * The MARLEY songs are laid out in two columns (side A, side B) from left to right then top to bottom, which suggests its pretty close to a matrix of characters, rather than something more abstract/structured. * Every character is taking up two bytes, which could be some Slovenian encoding but I doubt any European language was taking up 16 bits in the early 1990s, which makes me think every second character is a formatting for the character that precedes or follows it. * The MARLEY title has a repetitions like "BBoobb MMaarrlleeyy" which might be the kind of overprint mode I remember dot matrixes having, where the printer prints a character then goes back and reprints it, to get a bold effect. I would dig around for old dot matrix standards, Epson and so on.

ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
I think you nailed it re overprinting.

thatannoyingguy 5y ago

I don't know if you found the program for your family tree or if you inferred that from the filename, but you could try this one: Sierra Generations Family Tree, which uses the CHT format. Do you recall using that piece of software?

twooclock 5y ago
No. Is it from 1990? I remember more of like some charting or diagram software.

scrumper 5y ago

Your IMG might be from Gem Paint? I remember that extension from my first computer, and that's what we used. It's about the right age. EDIT: Ugh, maybe not, I looked at LINEN.IMG and there's a lot of text in there.

phaedrus 5y ago

My first programming environment was dBASE II! Would have been cool if these were dBASE databases and I could have helped, but then again I have neither the software anymore nor knowledge of the raw binary format.

ChrisArchitect 5y ago

OS/4 Warp?! was that a thing?! sorry just jumped out at me

twooclock 5y ago
Sorry it was OS/2 4.0 Warp. I stand corrected. I worked on it's translation. Was superb against win 3.1 at the time but users choose other way...

awhitby 5y ago

I will try to message this directly, since this thread is old now: I solved this, figuring out the file structure and encoding from the examples. I was totally wrong about the printer idea I suggested in another reply. MARLEY.CHT, for example, looks something like this: ╔════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ╠════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╣ ║ BBoobb MMaarrlleeyy && TThhee WWaaiilleerrss ║ ║ BBoobb MMaarrlleeyy && TThhee WWaaiilleerrss ║ ║ LLeeggeenndd ║ ╠═════════════════════════════╦══════════════════════════════╣ ║AA:: ║BB:: ║ ║AA:: ║BB:: ║ ║- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -║- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ║ ║1.No woman no cry ║1.Three little birds ║ ║ ║ ║ ║2.One love/people get ready ║2.Buffalo soldier ║ ║ ║ ║ ║3.Is this love ║3.Waiting in a vain ║ etc. You can see all the files and the code that made them here: https://github.com/econandrew/hn_mystery_files https://github.com/econandrew/hn_mystery_files This was a strangely satisfying task. I hope I can help the OP recover their more important files too.

RonaldOlzheim 5y ago

Do you still need some help?

twooclock 5y ago
It would be nice if I got original software files were made with. Still looking for ChartViewer for dBase interface (?).

jbullock35 5y ago

A shareware (freeware?) program called Graphics Workshop was popular in the 1990s and available from many BBSs. For example, you can get it at http://files.mpoli.fi/software/WIN32/GRAPHICS/ http://files.mpoli.fi/software/WIN32/GRAPHICS/. I mention it because it supports an IMG image format.