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In the U.S., when I went to elementary school in the early 80's, there were multiple years devoted to handwriting - first print then cursive. But even one year

by robg 18y ago

In the U.S., when I went to elementary school in the early 80's, there were multiple years devoted to handwriting - first print then cursive. But even one year is too many, especially because that is endless hours. It sounds like things haven't changed.

Tichy 18y ago
But how would you give lessons at school without pupils being able to write?
- robg 18y ago
  Typing. Start with big keys that make phonetic sounds. Shoot, Fisher Price has this: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5716931 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5716931 at Wal-Mart for two year olds! And it's twenty bucks. Then by second grade teach touch typing. It's such a fundamental skill, there's no good reason not to start when kids start formal school, if not before. I've done one study with kids as young as four and most clearly knew how to use a mouse and keyboard.
  - Tichy 18y ago
    I don't think typing would be as efficient, to be honest. What if there are diagrams that need comments? In general, what if some graphical structure to the text is needed (like bubbles around words pointing to other bubbles, and so on). Getting a text to look right can get complicated fast on a computer. Maybe with pure words per minute, you can do better with a typewriter than with writing, but I remain doubtful concerning typical lecture notes. Not that I wouldn't have liked to learn typing at school. Edit: my question was not "what would you teach instead of handwriting", the question was how to teach the other stuff without handwriting, that is, how are pupils supposed to take note. Surely you are not suggesting they take notes with the fisher price toy?
    - robg 18y ago
      Seriously, you're suggesting that kids need to be formally taught how to draw? You don't think they can copy something that's printed on the chalkboard? And you don't think kids would learn to write on their own? Didn't we learn to type that way? All I'm talking about is inverting the priorities, especially for young kids. Four and five year olds aren't expected to take notes. The stuff you're worrying about mostly comes later. And then, just like now with typing, they will know what they need to even without formal education shoving it down their throats. When did you learn to take notes? I don't think it was expected of me until 6th or 7th grade, if then.
      - Tichy 18y ago
        I don't recall spending so much time on learning how to write. I remember we had a book with the cursive letters in big that we were supposed to follow with out pencils a couple of times. One of the first homework assignments I really hated, consequently, my handwriting was always ugly. But yes, I think kids need to be taught how to write, they don't just learn it by copying from the board. Or maybe they would eventually, but it would take longer. With your argument, why have school at all, why not let kids learn everything by themselves. Also, I wish there was more emphasis in school on learning how to structure thoughts (on paper or elsewhere). The few bits on handwriting, underlining headlines and so on are among the few lessons where this aspects play a role - most other stuff really is just copying stuff from the board and learning it by heart. five year olds also need to take notes, for example write down tomorrows homework assignment. Of course you could put the assignments on a web site so that kids could look them up online instead - but I think that would produce a much higher workload for teachers.
        robg 18y ago
        "With your argument, why have school at all, why not let kids learn everything by themselves." That's not my argument. I want schools to focus on critical skills, especially during early childhood. Handwriting, today, isn't one of them. Teach kids to type. Penmanship can come later, like typing today. Invert the priorites to match real world demands. Kids are already typing and using computers any ways. I don't ever remember taking notes in elementary school. Assignments were handed out and completed. They could just as easily be emailed out and typed in. Problem is, the kids are probably more computer literate than most teachers.

by robg 18y ago

Tichy 18y ago

But how would you give lessons at school without pupils being able to write?

robg 18y ago
Typing. Start with big keys that make phonetic sounds. Shoot, Fisher Price has this: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5716931 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5716931 at Wal-Mart for two year olds! And it's twenty bucks. Then by second grade teach touch typing. It's such a fundamental skill, there's no good reason not to start when kids start formal school, if not before. I've done one study with kids as young as four and most clearly knew how to use a mouse and keyboard.
- Tichy 18y ago
  I don't think typing would be as efficient, to be honest. What if there are diagrams that need comments? In general, what if some graphical structure to the text is needed (like bubbles around words pointing to other bubbles, and so on). Getting a text to look right can get complicated fast on a computer. Maybe with pure words per minute, you can do better with a typewriter than with writing, but I remain doubtful concerning typical lecture notes. Not that I wouldn't have liked to learn typing at school. Edit: my question was not "what would you teach instead of handwriting", the question was how to teach the other stuff without handwriting, that is, how are pupils supposed to take note. Surely you are not suggesting they take notes with the fisher price toy?
  - robg 18y ago
    Seriously, you're suggesting that kids need to be formally taught how to draw? You don't think they can copy something that's printed on the chalkboard? And you don't think kids would learn to write on their own? Didn't we learn to type that way? All I'm talking about is inverting the priorities, especially for young kids. Four and five year olds aren't expected to take notes. The stuff you're worrying about mostly comes later. And then, just like now with typing, they will know what they need to even without formal education shoving it down their throats. When did you learn to take notes? I don't think it was expected of me until 6th or 7th grade, if then.
    - Tichy 18y ago
      I don't recall spending so much time on learning how to write. I remember we had a book with the cursive letters in big that we were supposed to follow with out pencils a couple of times. One of the first homework assignments I really hated, consequently, my handwriting was always ugly. But yes, I think kids need to be taught how to write, they don't just learn it by copying from the board. Or maybe they would eventually, but it would take longer. With your argument, why have school at all, why not let kids learn everything by themselves. Also, I wish there was more emphasis in school on learning how to structure thoughts (on paper or elsewhere). The few bits on handwriting, underlining headlines and so on are among the few lessons where this aspects play a role - most other stuff really is just copying stuff from the board and learning it by heart. five year olds also need to take notes, for example write down tomorrows homework assignment. Of course you could put the assignments on a web site so that kids could look them up online instead - but I think that would produce a much higher workload for teachers.
      - robg 18y ago
        "With your argument, why have school at all, why not let kids learn everything by themselves." That's not my argument. I want schools to focus on critical skills, especially during early childhood. Handwriting, today, isn't one of them. Teach kids to type. Penmanship can come later, like typing today. Invert the priorites to match real world demands. Kids are already typing and using computers any ways. I don't ever remember taking notes in elementary school. Assignments were handed out and completed. They could just as easily be emailed out and typed in. Problem is, the kids are probably more computer literate than most teachers.