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> you're just a meal Some animals attack out of defense as well, as in this case. > let's not idealize animals Acknowledging that most animals have conscious

by awb 5y ago

> you're just a meal Some animals attack out of defense as well, as in this case. > let's not idealize animals Acknowledging that most animals have consciousness, emotions, language, etc. isn't idealizing them, it's just an accurate observation. This is opposed to treating animals like trophies or non-sentient creatures. > where you among other things learn that dolphins and sea otters have rapists amongst their ranks As do humans. No one said animals are better or more virtuous than humans. OP's point is that it's not OK to go into nature and randomly shoot at animals for fun, entertainment, etc.

ByteJockey 5y ago
> most animals have consciousness, emotions, language, etc. Ok, so some I could see (elephants, dolphins, etc), but if it's most I'm gonna need a source on that.
- awb 5y ago
  Well pretty much every animal is conscious (aware of it’s surroundings and interacting with it’s environment in a strategic way). Almost every animal needs to be able to communicate with their own species either through cooperation, competition or finding a mate. All mammals I know of (and I think by definition) nurse and care for their young. That means there’s some form of communication between the parents and the child. And for emotions, it’s easy to see in domesticated cats and dogs, as well as wild primates. Fear, jealousy, anger, affection, etc. But it’s also been documented in many other species as well. Here’s some more info: https://online.uwa.edu/news/empathy-in-animals/ https://online.uwa.edu/news/empathy-in-animals/ > We know that fish are conscious and sentient, rats, mice and chickens display empathy and feel not only their own pain but also that of other individuals https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_kind_of_emotions_do_animals_feel https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_kind_of_e... > Even rodents, once thought to be unaffected by emotions and devoid of facial expressions, have been found to “express anguish through narrowed eyes, flattened ears, and swollen cheeks.” They also have facial expressions for pleasure, and they recognize these states in other rats. As for horses, De Waal notes that their faces are “about as expressive as those of the primates.”
  - ByteJockey 5y ago
    Most of these examples are about mammals. I'm pretty sure those aren't the majority of animals. I'm pretty sure it's insects. Well, for land dwelling animals, I'm not actually sure about ocean dwelling ones. With the amount of ocean we've mapped, do we actually know that side of this?

by awb 5y ago

ByteJockey 5y ago

> most animals have consciousness, emotions, language, etc. Ok, so some I could see (elephants, dolphins, etc), but if it's most I'm gonna need a source on that.

awb 5y ago
Well pretty much every animal is conscious (aware of it’s surroundings and interacting with it’s environment in a strategic way). Almost every animal needs to be able to communicate with their own species either through cooperation, competition or finding a mate. All mammals I know of (and I think by definition) nurse and care for their young. That means there’s some form of communication between the parents and the child. And for emotions, it’s easy to see in domesticated cats and dogs, as well as wild primates. Fear, jealousy, anger, affection, etc. But it’s also been documented in many other species as well. Here’s some more info: https://online.uwa.edu/news/empathy-in-animals/ https://online.uwa.edu/news/empathy-in-animals/ > We know that fish are conscious and sentient, rats, mice and chickens display empathy and feel not only their own pain but also that of other individuals https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_kind_of_emotions_do_animals_feel https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_kind_of_e... > Even rodents, once thought to be unaffected by emotions and devoid of facial expressions, have been found to “express anguish through narrowed eyes, flattened ears, and swollen cheeks.” They also have facial expressions for pleasure, and they recognize these states in other rats. As for horses, De Waal notes that their faces are “about as expressive as those of the primates.”
- ByteJockey 5y ago
  Most of these examples are about mammals. I'm pretty sure those aren't the majority of animals. I'm pretty sure it's insects. Well, for land dwelling animals, I'm not actually sure about ocean dwelling ones. With the amount of ocean we've mapped, do we actually know that side of this?