4 ms·

Yes, which is exactly why you should be fighting against those two as well. I'm doing my bit by not putting much valuable data besides YouTube playlists into my

Yes, which is exactly why you should be fighting against those two as well. I'm doing my bit by not putting much valuable data besides YouTube playlists into my very ancient Google account, and using Linux on the desktop.

Tijdreiziger 5y ago
For (sane) business e-mail you basically have 3 choices: MS, Google or Zoho. I recently commented on this topic here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30266721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30266721
- lpcvoid 5y ago
  Why is that? I know people who run large businesses on OVH hosted email. Own domain, SMTP/IMAP goodness, everything just works, cheap and portable. Why would I ever want to ensnare me or my users to a Microsoft owned service?
  - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
    I just looked at OVH’s offerings and it looks like their email is just based on Microsoft Exchange Server? [1] I still count that as Microsoft. It’s the same software, just in OVH’s instead of Microsoft’s datacenters. [1] https://www.ovhcloud.com/en-ie/emails/ https://www.ovhcloud.com/en-ie/emails/
    - lpcvoid 5y ago
      I actually didn't know that, thanks. Then I'd change OVH to Migadu, which works well too. And in my book it's already a good start if something is not hosted by Microsoft :)
      - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
        Just checked out Migadu. Their support page is pretty sparse, but it looks to me like they fail on the same criteria Fastmail fails on, which a sibling commenter mentioned and I replied to here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30397414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30397414 Believe me, I am also a big proponent of open software and standards. But when the open options all seem to be inferior, then it doesn't make sense to go with them, especially when they have to support a business. (also, the name is pretty funny to me, as 'mi gadu' is slang for 'oh my god' in the Netherlands :P)
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  I've been using Zoho for personal email with no issues for almost a decade, IIRC. But depending on what kind of business you're running, there are certainly more options than just those three.
  - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
    If you know any other options that satisfy the constraints in the comment I linked, I would be interested to hear about them. I haven't been able to find any in my research.
- SSLy 5y ago
  Which option does Fastmail fail on?
  - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
    Just checked them out. Looks to me like they don't offer 'real' shared mailboxes (where every user authorized for the mailbox has the same view of the mailbox), just 'distribution lists' (in essence, forwarders). Consider the following scenario: Alice and Bob jointly manage a mailbox sales@acme.co. An email from a customer arrives and Alice replies to it. With a real shared mailbox, Bob should be able to see the e-mail Alice sent, as they both have the same view on the shared mailbox. IIUC, with a simple distribution list this is not the case (the sent e-mail just resides in Alice's personal mailbox).
    - nmjenkins 5y ago
      No, you can definitely share mailboxes in Fastmail: https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/360060590733-Sharing-mail https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/360060590733-Sha...
      - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
        Interesting. Can this be managed from an admin panel or would you have to log in to each mailbox individually to manage settings? For comparison, here's the MS documentation: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/email/create-a-shared-mailbox?view=o365-worldwide https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/email/c... I'm a big proponent of open standards, so if anybody on HN knows e-mail providers that can sanely do this and store your data within the EU (Fastmail says they don't [1]), I'm definitely interested to hear about them. We would also have to find decent alternatives for other parts of MS365, though (file sharing and single sign-on (currently our users have different logins for various systems, causing them to write their passwords on sticky notes...)). [1] https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000280221#physicalsecurity https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000280221#ph...

Tijdreiziger 5y ago

For (sane) business e-mail you basically have 3 choices: MS, Google or Zoho. I recently commented on this topic here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30266721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30266721

lpcvoid 5y ago
Why is that? I know people who run large businesses on OVH hosted email. Own domain, SMTP/IMAP goodness, everything just works, cheap and portable. Why would I ever want to ensnare me or my users to a Microsoft owned service?
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  I just looked at OVH’s offerings and it looks like their email is just based on Microsoft Exchange Server? [1] I still count that as Microsoft. It’s the same software, just in OVH’s instead of Microsoft’s datacenters. [1] https://www.ovhcloud.com/en-ie/emails/ https://www.ovhcloud.com/en-ie/emails/
  - lpcvoid 5y ago
    I actually didn't know that, thanks. Then I'd change OVH to Migadu, which works well too. And in my book it's already a good start if something is not hosted by Microsoft :)
    - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
      Just checked out Migadu. Their support page is pretty sparse, but it looks to me like they fail on the same criteria Fastmail fails on, which a sibling commenter mentioned and I replied to here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30397414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30397414 Believe me, I am also a big proponent of open software and standards. But when the open options all seem to be inferior, then it doesn't make sense to go with them, especially when they have to support a business. (also, the name is pretty funny to me, as 'mi gadu' is slang for 'oh my god' in the Netherlands :P)
selfhoster11 5y ago
I've been using Zoho for personal email with no issues for almost a decade, IIRC. But depending on what kind of business you're running, there are certainly more options than just those three.
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  If you know any other options that satisfy the constraints in the comment I linked, I would be interested to hear about them. I haven't been able to find any in my research.
SSLy 5y ago
Which option does Fastmail fail on?
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  Just checked them out. Looks to me like they don't offer 'real' shared mailboxes (where every user authorized for the mailbox has the same view of the mailbox), just 'distribution lists' (in essence, forwarders). Consider the following scenario: Alice and Bob jointly manage a mailbox sales@acme.co. An email from a customer arrives and Alice replies to it. With a real shared mailbox, Bob should be able to see the e-mail Alice sent, as they both have the same view on the shared mailbox. IIUC, with a simple distribution list this is not the case (the sent e-mail just resides in Alice's personal mailbox).
  - nmjenkins 5y ago
    No, you can definitely share mailboxes in Fastmail: https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/360060590733-Sharing-mail https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/360060590733-Sha...
    - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
      Interesting. Can this be managed from an admin panel or would you have to log in to each mailbox individually to manage settings? For comparison, here's the MS documentation: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/email/create-a-shared-mailbox?view=o365-worldwide https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/email/c... I'm a big proponent of open standards, so if anybody on HN knows e-mail providers that can sanely do this and store your data within the EU (Fastmail says they don't [1]), I'm definitely interested to hear about them. We would also have to find decent alternatives for other parts of MS365, though (file sharing and single sign-on (currently our users have different logins for various systems, causing them to write their passwords on sticky notes...)). [1] https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000280221#physicalsecurity https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000280221#ph...