5 ms·

It sucks what happened but it's important to realize that this is a pretty rare occurrence. There are a lot of famous people and most of them don't have someone

It sucks what happened but it's important to realize that this is a pretty rare occurrence. There are a lot of famous people and most of them don't have someone turn up to their house with a shotgun at any point. News seeks out the sensational but keep in mind that it is sensational because this is an outlier. And even the individual affected by this incident apparently considers the platform to be worth the risk, since she is still active on there.

dijonman2 5y ago
I can’t accept this argument. In a risk matrix the probability is low but impact is high, so it’s still high risk and doesnt justify dismissal. I think it bolsters the need for anonymity and privacy, especially online. In FL you have the sunshine act which makes doxxing particularly easy.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  That’s true of literally any rare disaster. That’s why they’re called disasters. Better not fly.
  - theodric 5y ago
    Everyone's a risk manager until they have to do it every day, and then they find themselves constrained by last week's fears to the extent that they can no longer leave the house without a haz-mat suit, armed bodyguard, and one-way plane ticket to a remote village in Switzerland
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  I totally understand that some people would not choose to make the tradeoff, and they are free not to. Inherently, anyone broadcasting video of their everyday life is going to be doxxable if they are not extremely careful about how much information they are putting out. The sunshine laws in this case may have helped but I don't think we know that. The article doesn't mention them at any rate.
_bfhp 5y ago
Any specific-enough set of circumstances is inherently rare. Men stalking and using guns on women and girls isn't uncommon at all.
- LudwigNagasena 5y ago
  >Men stalking and using guns on women and girls isn't uncommon at all. I would say it's pretty uncommon.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    It’s very difficult to estimate the ballpark of how many cases that victims are disincentivized from reporting happen on daily basis. This includes countries that are perceived as “low crime”, like Japan and UAE.
  - fullshark 5y ago
    It's common enough to worry about and not handwave away I'd say, especially if you are operating a social network.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
IMO the issue is that people are attracted to these platforms for the ad-money and attention of an audience, but the extent to which you open yourself up to harassment and stalking is only understood after-the-fact. If only social media hadn't enforced real name policies, it might be a little easier to stay anonymous while still being a content creator, maybe its different in other countries. Edit: Facebook and Google+/Youtube had or have real name policies, before then it was the norm to never reveal your real identity online, I admit I am ignorant to TikTok policies, but apparently sharing your venmo address is not uncommon.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  > the extent to which you open yourself up to harassment and stalking is only understood after-the-fact. Some things are hard to learn the easy way. In any case, as I observed, the tradeoff seems worth it to the subject of the article and her family, even now they are made forcefully aware of the possible downsides. Perhaps it ultimately will not be but I personally don't feel like I'm in a position to dictate how they should balance the risks and rewards of stardom.
- theodric 5y ago
  Social media didn't enforce real name policies, Facebook dot com did. Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, Tumblr, the right-wing sites-- none of those (nominally) require you to divulge PII to open an account (although try opening a Twitter account in $currentYear and see how long you last before they lock your account for 'unusual activity' until you provide both a phone number + e-mail address)
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  TikTok doesn't require your real name.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    Fair, but Venmo does.
    - 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
armchairhacker 5y ago
A fan going to their star’s house with a weapon is rare. A man stalking and becoming obsessed with a specific woman, spending time and effort for sex and attention despite the woman clearly not being interested, is surprisingly common. Many, many woman have real-life incidents of men literally stalking them, men repeatedly trying to get their attention / ask them out despite blatant “stop talking to me” rejection, and men getting really aggressive when they get rejected or “emasculated”. On games and social media it’s much worse, to the point where basically anyone who reveals themselves to be female gets creepy messages. You just don’t realize because relatively this stuff almost never happens to men, even attractive men. Go on a sub like r/NiceGuys, r/TwoXChromosomes and you will see a ton of examples. But even random subs like r/AskReddit and my college’s sub have multiple stories because it’s so common. It’s actually a very serious issue in nearly every society, and this incident is an (albeit extreme) example of the persistence and aggressiveness most semi-attractive women experience.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  > A fan going to their star’s house with a weapon is rare. > A man stalking and becoming obsessed with a specific woman [is common] . . . I recognize the truth of what you're saying, but I also just want to point out that the discussion is about the former situation, not the latter one. Otherwise there wouldn't be these vague intimations that something is wrong with Tiktok in the NYTimes piece.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > A fan going to their star’s house with a weapon is rare. If your denominator is fans, yes. If it is stars, not so much. > You just don’t realize because relatively this stuff almost never happens to men, even attractive men. Yes, it does, and not just conventionally attractive men. You don't realize because men have less social support for discussing it when it happens to them, and you mistake relative visibility for relative frequency.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    I'm glad you brought this up. I think this is similar to how domestic violence is cast as a women's issue, yet men are just as likely if not more so to be victims. https://www.saveservices.org/2019/02/men-face-31-greater-risk-of-domestic-violence-than-women/ https://www.saveservices.org/2019/02/men-face-31-greater-ris...

dijonman2 5y ago

I can’t accept this argument. In a risk matrix the probability is low but impact is high, so it’s still high risk and doesnt justify dismissal. I think it bolsters the need for anonymity and privacy, especially online. In FL you have the sunshine act which makes doxxing particularly easy.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
That’s true of literally any rare disaster. That’s why they’re called disasters. Better not fly.
- theodric 5y ago
  Everyone's a risk manager until they have to do it every day, and then they find themselves constrained by last week's fears to the extent that they can no longer leave the house without a haz-mat suit, armed bodyguard, and one-way plane ticket to a remote village in Switzerland
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
I totally understand that some people would not choose to make the tradeoff, and they are free not to. Inherently, anyone broadcasting video of their everyday life is going to be doxxable if they are not extremely careful about how much information they are putting out. The sunshine laws in this case may have helped but I don't think we know that. The article doesn't mention them at any rate.

_bfhp 5y ago

Any specific-enough set of circumstances is inherently rare. Men stalking and using guns on women and girls isn't uncommon at all.

LudwigNagasena 5y ago
>Men stalking and using guns on women and girls isn't uncommon at all. I would say it's pretty uncommon.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  It’s very difficult to estimate the ballpark of how many cases that victims are disincentivized from reporting happen on daily basis. This includes countries that are perceived as “low crime”, like Japan and UAE.
- fullshark 5y ago
  It's common enough to worry about and not handwave away I'd say, especially if you are operating a social network.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

IMO the issue is that people are attracted to these platforms for the ad-money and attention of an audience, but the extent to which you open yourself up to harassment and stalking is only understood after-the-fact. If only social media hadn't enforced real name policies, it might be a little easier to stay anonymous while still being a content creator, maybe its different in other countries. Edit: Facebook and Google+/Youtube had or have real name policies, before then it was the norm to never reveal your real identity online, I admit I am ignorant to TikTok policies, but apparently sharing your venmo address is not uncommon.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
> the extent to which you open yourself up to harassment and stalking is only understood after-the-fact. Some things are hard to learn the easy way. In any case, as I observed, the tradeoff seems worth it to the subject of the article and her family, even now they are made forcefully aware of the possible downsides. Perhaps it ultimately will not be but I personally don't feel like I'm in a position to dictate how they should balance the risks and rewards of stardom.
theodric 5y ago
Social media didn't enforce real name policies, Facebook dot com did. Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, Tumblr, the right-wing sites-- none of those (nominally) require you to divulge PII to open an account (although try opening a Twitter account in $currentYear and see how long you last before they lock your account for 'unusual activity' until you provide both a phone number + e-mail address)
BurningFrog 5y ago
TikTok doesn't require your real name.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  Fair, but Venmo does.
  - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

armchairhacker 5y ago

A fan going to their star’s house with a weapon is rare. A man stalking and becoming obsessed with a specific woman, spending time and effort for sex and attention despite the woman clearly not being interested, is surprisingly common. Many, many woman have real-life incidents of men literally stalking them, men repeatedly trying to get their attention / ask them out despite blatant “stop talking to me” rejection, and men getting really aggressive when they get rejected or “emasculated”. On games and social media it’s much worse, to the point where basically anyone who reveals themselves to be female gets creepy messages. You just don’t realize because relatively this stuff almost never happens to men, even attractive men. Go on a sub like r/NiceGuys, r/TwoXChromosomes and you will see a ton of examples. But even random subs like r/AskReddit and my college’s sub have multiple stories because it’s so common. It’s actually a very serious issue in nearly every society, and this incident is an (albeit extreme) example of the persistence and aggressiveness most semi-attractive women experience.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
> A fan going to their star’s house with a weapon is rare. > A man stalking and becoming obsessed with a specific woman [is common] . . . I recognize the truth of what you're saying, but I also just want to point out that the discussion is about the former situation, not the latter one. Otherwise there wouldn't be these vague intimations that something is wrong with Tiktok in the NYTimes piece.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> A fan going to their star’s house with a weapon is rare. If your denominator is fans, yes. If it is stars, not so much. > You just don’t realize because relatively this stuff almost never happens to men, even attractive men. Yes, it does, and not just conventionally attractive men. You don't realize because men have less social support for discussing it when it happens to them, and you mistake relative visibility for relative frequency.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I'm glad you brought this up. I think this is similar to how domestic violence is cast as a women's issue, yet men are just as likely if not more so to be victims. https://www.saveservices.org/2019/02/men-face-31-greater-risk-of-domestic-violence-than-women/ https://www.saveservices.org/2019/02/men-face-31-greater-ris...