4 ms·

What do you think could the prison system have done differently to make your views less radical and extreme?

noel99 5y ago
Nothing, prison is a warehouse. Remember though all that occurred was property damaged and a level of intimidation that would make a person of sturdy character laugh, on the spectrum of political action it really was not that extreme
- causality0 5y ago
  I don't think getting fake bombs in the mail would make anybody laugh regardless of their character.
  - sweetbitter 5y ago
    Only more fragile types (people who care about and/or actually believe in mortality) wouldn't, I wager.
- bmsleight_ 5y ago
  > level of intimidation that would make a person of sturdy character laugh The intent was for the intimidation to work, so regardless of how sturdy the character. Its hardly a victimless crime. Marching and demonstrating maybe not as effective, but I find it hard to celebrating trying to harm another person, regardless of how ineffective. Non-violence is a good way to change unjust laws, intimidation is not just.
kspacewalk2 5y ago
This question somewhat trivializes the "radicals" and their "extreme" views and denies them agency. What would it take for you to change your strongly held views, "extreme" or otherwise? Who the fuck knows, right? But probably nothing formulaic and generalizable. So it is with others.
- danuker 5y ago
  > But probably nothing formulaic and generalizable. I found the "Seek first to understand, then to be understood" rule in the 7 Habits book illuminating. If only government, lawmakers, and the electorate in general, understood it.
staticassertion 5y ago
How could a prison system ever really do that? It's a punishment. You learn that what you did before has consequences, not that it was wrong. Rehabilitating someone with "radical" ideas would involve acknowledging and challenging their ideas. That's not how rehabilitation really works even in theory - most rehabilitation is taking criminals who aren't ideologically motivated and solving the much simpler problems of educating them so that they can work.
- GoodbyeMrChips 5y ago
  > How could a prison system ever really do that? It's a punishment. Reading this, I'd bet £1000 to spat out sweet you are US-American? Because elsewhere, most of the civilised world treats prison as rehabilitation.
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    I'm quite curious: who counts as 'civilized' these days? Clearly not the UAE (we've just seen an article on Dubai debtors prisons on these pages) but it seems we'd need to take Japan off the list, for instance (see e.g. https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/12/03/silent-screams https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/12/03/silent-screams ) and if we have to take them off the list I'm not sure where we end up stopping
    - Lio 5y ago
      The Netherland seems like a good bet. I look with envy at how they do a lot of things.
      - eyelidlessness 5y ago
        Apart from the pissing contest of who has a better penal system, can anyone in this discussion show that there’s a system to imprison people which parts people with their strongly held moral beliefs and should do so?
  - staticassertion 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Nothing, prison is a warehouse. Remember though all that occurred was property damaged and a level of intimidation that would make a person of sturdy character laugh, on the spectrum of political action it really was not that extreme

causality0 5y ago
I don't think getting fake bombs in the mail would make anybody laugh regardless of their character.
- sweetbitter 5y ago
  Only more fragile types (people who care about and/or actually believe in mortality) wouldn't, I wager.
bmsleight_ 5y ago
> level of intimidation that would make a person of sturdy character laugh The intent was for the intimidation to work, so regardless of how sturdy the character. Its hardly a victimless crime. Marching and demonstrating maybe not as effective, but I find it hard to celebrating trying to harm another person, regardless of how ineffective. Non-violence is a good way to change unjust laws, intimidation is not just.

kspacewalk2 5y ago

This question somewhat trivializes the "radicals" and their "extreme" views and denies them agency. What would it take for you to change your strongly held views, "extreme" or otherwise? Who the fuck knows, right? But probably nothing formulaic and generalizable. So it is with others.

danuker 5y ago
> But probably nothing formulaic and generalizable. I found the "Seek first to understand, then to be understood" rule in the 7 Habits book illuminating. If only government, lawmakers, and the electorate in general, understood it.

staticassertion 5y ago

How could a prison system ever really do that? It's a punishment. You learn that what you did before has consequences, not that it was wrong. Rehabilitating someone with "radical" ideas would involve acknowledging and challenging their ideas. That's not how rehabilitation really works even in theory - most rehabilitation is taking criminals who aren't ideologically motivated and solving the much simpler problems of educating them so that they can work.

GoodbyeMrChips 5y ago
> How could a prison system ever really do that? It's a punishment. Reading this, I'd bet £1000 to spat out sweet you are US-American? Because elsewhere, most of the civilised world treats prison as rehabilitation.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  I'm quite curious: who counts as 'civilized' these days? Clearly not the UAE (we've just seen an article on Dubai debtors prisons on these pages) but it seems we'd need to take Japan off the list, for instance (see e.g. https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/12/03/silent-screams https://www.economist.com/asia/2015/12/03/silent-screams ) and if we have to take them off the list I'm not sure where we end up stopping
  - Lio 5y ago
    The Netherland seems like a good bet. I look with envy at how they do a lot of things.
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      Apart from the pissing contest of who has a better penal system, can anyone in this discussion show that there’s a system to imprison people which parts people with their strongly held moral beliefs and should do so?
- staticassertion 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]