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>then you should do the same too. No. My phone is my alarm system. It is what wakes me up at 5:20am every morning to start things going. My wife uses hers for

>then you should do the same too. No. My phone is my alarm system. It is what wakes me up at 5:20am every morning to start things going. My wife uses hers for white noise.

danieljacksonno 5y ago
I use my apple watch for this. That said, you can easily buy a simple analog alarm for a few bucks.
saagarjha 5y ago
Ok, but why shouldn’t your kids be able to also use them in similar ways?
- amflare 5y ago
  Because they are children. They get to have fewer responsibilities in return for having fewer freedoms while they grow up and gain experience.
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    I know if I was a child, I would be upset that you get to take your phone into your bedroom and use it for useful things. I understand that this is OK for some parents, but the whole point of the comment above the one I was responding to was that children react positively to consistent applications of the rules, and the comment was basically "I have valid uses for my devices (but this is not true for my children)".
    - PathOfEclipse 5y ago
      It's not that you have valid uses for your devices. It's that you trust yourself with the self-control to not to use the devices improperly or in ways that could be self-harmful, or, if so, to be able to bear the consequences. Adults can also drive, but children can't. There is no inconsistency there, either. Writing as a parent who has had to deal with children staying up late at night, way after they should be sleeping, and looking up things on devices that I would consider inappropriate for both children and adults.
      - dijonman2 5y ago
        > It's that you trust yourself with the self-control to not to use the devices improperly or in ways that could be self-harmful, or, if so, to be able to bear the consequences. This sounds like something an addict would say. Not calling you out as an individual but instead highlighting the dangers of “I can stop anytime I want”.
    - nickpeterson 5y ago
      I think you’re inadvertently propping up another idea, that all rules apply equally to children and adults. This is obviously not true.
    - moistly 5y ago
      Were you upset that your parents got to drink booze and you didn’t? That they got to watch nighttime (e.g. adult) TV? Drive the car? Stay up late? Have sex? Adults have myriad privileges that children do not. It is not unfair.
      - onli 5y ago
        Of course that's unfair. Always has been.
        moistly 5y ago
        Please explain, because IMO that is a ridiculously stupid statement: to paraphrase your claim, “of course it’s unfair that children don’t get to fuck/fly airplanes/etc. Always has been.” Surely you meant something else.
        onli 5y ago
        First, even if you think everything is handled perfectly now, things can be unfair and still be the best possible option. Try to see things from the perspective of a child. Or if that's too far away, a teenager. Didn't it always feel unfair to you that the adults could do all these things, were free to decide what they do and especially what they didn't have to do? Althewhile you were literally forced to go to school and could decide almost nothing? Especially later on, when you felt like an adult but just weren't on paper (not even talking too much about myself here, I had more freedom than most). And that wouldn't have been completely unjustified. The way society forces teenagers, young adults even, into these states where they get no freedom about their lives is not something that's necessary natural, not necessary the right thing to do. I mean, for something easier, look at the utter harmless jokes of PC games that were censored back then for non-adults (and effectively even for adults, depending where you lived). That really was unfair and ridiculous. Heck, one of the most influential games I played back then was Deus Ex, would be seen as completely harmless today, it was rated 18+. Crazy. Being completely unjust with things like phone usage can't help with all of that. Do as I say, not as I do can't be a great guideline for how to handle these things.
    - codechad 5y ago
    - irrational 5y ago
      Were you upset that your parents could drive the car and you couldn't? Parents and children are not the same and do not abide by the same rules.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Because kids lack almost all control when it comes to entertainment and talking to friends and their brains aren't fully formed. I have a screen time timer set for my phone. After 1 hour each day I don't use it for anything fun after that hour is up. My kids aren't going to be able to handle that with personal discipline. Before you ask, yeah I've tried, the only way is to force them to surrender their devices at a reasonable time at night like 8pm.
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    So it sounds like you gave them an opportunity to use their devices productively, and they couldn't, so they don't get to use your phone. Had you not been able to do that, your screen time would kick in and do the same to you. Seems reasonable to me?
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      I did, I watched very closely (and took estimated times) for a couple weeks and they were obsessed a couple years back. All they wanted to do was be on the phone or switch. If you close some doors then other doors will open up. Board games, actually sitting down and telling their day to me (and their mom), playing with the cats and dog. Etc. I give them a lot of freedom until around 8, everyone needs personal time that they own, including kids, then it's back to business of being a family and homework.
- brnt 5y ago
  You are aware impulse control is something that takes a decade or two (or more) to acquire? Most kids simply can't use them just in those similar ways.
- irrational 5y ago
  Because, when it's my bed time, I go to bed. I know that I have responsibilities that require me to get a full nights sleep. The kids? It doesn't matter if they know that they have to diffuse a nuclear bomb in the morning. They will stay up all night on their devices if given the chance and then let the world burn. Their brains are not ready yet. That is why they have parents.
andruby 5y ago
That’s easy to fix with a $15 alarm clock.
- watwut 5y ago
  O would rather model not wasting money unnecessary
  - andruby 5y ago
    Is spending $15 on an alarm clock wasting money? That thing will probably last a decade or two and outlive a couple of phone generations. You’ll get to lead by example and perhaps even improve your sleep.
    - ohyoutravel 5y ago
      Buying a second thing to unnecessarily duplicate functionality seems like a waste, even if the thing by itself would otherwise be a solid deal.
      - kelnos 5y ago
        That depends on whether or not you'd consider "setting an example for your kids" in this particular way as necessary or not. If you think that's valuable, then this isn't an unnecessary duplicate. If not, then sure.
      - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
        As opposed to a fancy gizmo that does everything but has to be replaced every three years due to lack of support?
        watwut 5y ago
        1.) I replace phone when they are too broken, not on schedule. 2.) I need phone anyway. And even old flip phones had alarm. Phone with alarm does not need to be fancy at all.
aprinsen 5y ago
This has really got me thinking about the hidden costs of having one high tech device that does everything. Like, I wonder if someone is running ML models on all of our sleeping habits based on phone alarms. Would be interesting to get some of the telemetry/tracking output from the clocks app.
- throw3838 5y ago
  Or just install opensource ROM without this stuff.

>then you should do the same too. No. My phone is my alarm system. It is what wakes me up at 5:20am every morning to start things going. My wife uses hers for white noise.

danieljacksonno 5y ago

I use my apple watch for this. That said, you can easily buy a simple analog alarm for a few bucks.

saagarjha 5y ago

Ok, but why shouldn’t your kids be able to also use them in similar ways?

amflare 5y ago
Because they are children. They get to have fewer responsibilities in return for having fewer freedoms while they grow up and gain experience.
- saagarjha 5y ago
  I know if I was a child, I would be upset that you get to take your phone into your bedroom and use it for useful things. I understand that this is OK for some parents, but the whole point of the comment above the one I was responding to was that children react positively to consistent applications of the rules, and the comment was basically "I have valid uses for my devices (but this is not true for my children)".
  - PathOfEclipse 5y ago
    It's not that you have valid uses for your devices. It's that you trust yourself with the self-control to not to use the devices improperly or in ways that could be self-harmful, or, if so, to be able to bear the consequences. Adults can also drive, but children can't. There is no inconsistency there, either. Writing as a parent who has had to deal with children staying up late at night, way after they should be sleeping, and looking up things on devices that I would consider inappropriate for both children and adults.
    - dijonman2 5y ago
      > It's that you trust yourself with the self-control to not to use the devices improperly or in ways that could be self-harmful, or, if so, to be able to bear the consequences. This sounds like something an addict would say. Not calling you out as an individual but instead highlighting the dangers of “I can stop anytime I want”.
  - nickpeterson 5y ago
    I think you’re inadvertently propping up another idea, that all rules apply equally to children and adults. This is obviously not true.
  - moistly 5y ago
    Were you upset that your parents got to drink booze and you didn’t? That they got to watch nighttime (e.g. adult) TV? Drive the car? Stay up late? Have sex? Adults have myriad privileges that children do not. It is not unfair.
    - onli 5y ago
      Of course that's unfair. Always has been.
      - moistly 5y ago
        Please explain, because IMO that is a ridiculously stupid statement: to paraphrase your claim, “of course it’s unfair that children don’t get to fuck/fly airplanes/etc. Always has been.” Surely you meant something else.
        onli 5y ago
        First, even if you think everything is handled perfectly now, things can be unfair and still be the best possible option. Try to see things from the perspective of a child. Or if that's too far away, a teenager. Didn't it always feel unfair to you that the adults could do all these things, were free to decide what they do and especially what they didn't have to do? Althewhile you were literally forced to go to school and could decide almost nothing? Especially later on, when you felt like an adult but just weren't on paper (not even talking too much about myself here, I had more freedom than most). And that wouldn't have been completely unjustified. The way society forces teenagers, young adults even, into these states where they get no freedom about their lives is not something that's necessary natural, not necessary the right thing to do. I mean, for something easier, look at the utter harmless jokes of PC games that were censored back then for non-adults (and effectively even for adults, depending where you lived). That really was unfair and ridiculous. Heck, one of the most influential games I played back then was Deus Ex, would be seen as completely harmless today, it was rated 18+. Crazy. Being completely unjust with things like phone usage can't help with all of that. Do as I say, not as I do can't be a great guideline for how to handle these things.
  - codechad 5y ago
  - irrational 5y ago
    Were you upset that your parents could drive the car and you couldn't? Parents and children are not the same and do not abide by the same rules.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Because kids lack almost all control when it comes to entertainment and talking to friends and their brains aren't fully formed. I have a screen time timer set for my phone. After 1 hour each day I don't use it for anything fun after that hour is up. My kids aren't going to be able to handle that with personal discipline. Before you ask, yeah I've tried, the only way is to force them to surrender their devices at a reasonable time at night like 8pm.
- saagarjha 5y ago
  So it sounds like you gave them an opportunity to use their devices productively, and they couldn't, so they don't get to use your phone. Had you not been able to do that, your screen time would kick in and do the same to you. Seems reasonable to me?
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    I did, I watched very closely (and took estimated times) for a couple weeks and they were obsessed a couple years back. All they wanted to do was be on the phone or switch. If you close some doors then other doors will open up. Board games, actually sitting down and telling their day to me (and their mom), playing with the cats and dog. Etc. I give them a lot of freedom until around 8, everyone needs personal time that they own, including kids, then it's back to business of being a family and homework.
brnt 5y ago
You are aware impulse control is something that takes a decade or two (or more) to acquire? Most kids simply can't use them just in those similar ways.
irrational 5y ago
Because, when it's my bed time, I go to bed. I know that I have responsibilities that require me to get a full nights sleep. The kids? It doesn't matter if they know that they have to diffuse a nuclear bomb in the morning. They will stay up all night on their devices if given the chance and then let the world burn. Their brains are not ready yet. That is why they have parents.

andruby 5y ago

That’s easy to fix with a $15 alarm clock.

watwut 5y ago
O would rather model not wasting money unnecessary
- andruby 5y ago
  Is spending $15 on an alarm clock wasting money? That thing will probably last a decade or two and outlive a couple of phone generations. You’ll get to lead by example and perhaps even improve your sleep.
  - ohyoutravel 5y ago
    Buying a second thing to unnecessarily duplicate functionality seems like a waste, even if the thing by itself would otherwise be a solid deal.
    - kelnos 5y ago
      That depends on whether or not you'd consider "setting an example for your kids" in this particular way as necessary or not. If you think that's valuable, then this isn't an unnecessary duplicate. If not, then sure.
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      As opposed to a fancy gizmo that does everything but has to be replaced every three years due to lack of support?
      - watwut 5y ago
        1.) I replace phone when they are too broken, not on schedule. 2.) I need phone anyway. And even old flip phones had alarm. Phone with alarm does not need to be fancy at all.

aprinsen 5y ago

This has really got me thinking about the hidden costs of having one high tech device that does everything. Like, I wonder if someone is running ML models on all of our sleeping habits based on phone alarms. Would be interesting to get some of the telemetry/tracking output from the clocks app.

throw3838 5y ago
Or just install opensource ROM without this stuff.