20 ms·

I think the idea is to have them enter the password that destroys the data.

by brian_herman 5y ago

ratg13 5y ago
That may have worked 10-20 years ago. These days there are established procedures and protocols that prevent this.
- ohyeshedid 5y ago
  What protocols stop a person from removing the drive from your machine, and imaging the drive?
  - g_p 5y ago
    Not even just that - in addition to imaging, write blockers should be used for evidential integrity as well.
  - singlow 5y ago
    I think that's the point of that comment. Police have procedures now to prevent a nuke script from being effective.
  - amiga-workbench 5y ago
    If only you could run your own code on the drive controller. Start obliterating data at random if the disk isn't initialized properly.
boring_twenties 5y ago
I think my point is that destroying one copy of the data is pointless when other copies exist.
- hinkley 5y ago
  Destroying 1 copy pretty much guarantees someone is going to go find that $5 wrench and explain to you how disappointed they are.
  - staticassertion 5y ago
    If your threat model is the police, a wrench could be a best case scenario for you. If you can prove the police took a wrench to you during an interrogation you're definitely getting the case thrown out.
    - dheera 5y ago
      With police you can start a Twitter mob if you're lucky but there are ten thousand other George Floyds out there that didn't get any justice when police took wrenches, tasers, knees, guns to them. And that doesn't really apply to the CBP and the CBP equivalents of other countries. They're ruthless and can lock you up in cages, there isn't really the opportunity to start a "case" until you're past the CBP. If you aren't a citizen you sadly don't have access to a lawyer if the CBP wants to hit you with a $5 wrench, because you aren't even in the US yet.
    - kingcharles 5y ago
      LOL. Yes, possibly, but think of the time. I didn't break when the cops put a loaded gun to my head or threatened me and refused me a lawyer. I broke an hour later when they decided threatening my wife would be a better plan. It took 7 years of sitting in jail to get the judge to watch the video and throw shit out.
  - bduerst 5y ago
    If violence was an option in this hypothetical, it would have already been used to get the password anyway.
    - hinkley 5y ago
      One, the wrench can be metaphorical. If you brick the device that's antagonistic. Getting you on a petty crime, as a cop, or getting $50 from your wallet as a criminal, may stop them from looking. Being combative results in retribution, and as we all know cops can be petty, and selective enforcement of rules is one of the hallmarks of Institutional sexism/classism/racism. If using Crypto While Black isn't already a thing, it's gonna be, and there's nothing you and I can do to stop it. Slow it down, absolutely, but stop it? Not without help from our kids and possibly grandkids. This isn't a chess match between equals. This is someone who can ruin your life just to make a point. Even keeping you in custody for a day or three can screw up a lot of people. The Lockpicking Lawyer put it pretty well recently. The people who make locks are following rules that nobody else is beholden to follow. The designer looks at the parts and thinks about their purpose. Their design. The picker is looking at what they can make the thing do, not what it's 'meant' to do. They are repurposing things, to circumvent the wishes of the manufacture and the consumer. That's where the wrench comes in. That's where cloning the device comes in. That's where giving the adversary a fictional win to regain your liberty comes in.
- bduerst 5y ago
  You're right, it's not a silver bullet but it is another defense for the probable cases that they didn't make a copy.
  - boring_twenties 5y ago
    What cases would those be? Any law enforcement or customs agency will make copies.
ohyeshedid 5y ago
I think the point you responded to was talking about copying the encrypted data before attempting to unlock it.

I think the idea is to have them enter the password that destroys the data.

ratg13 5y ago

That may have worked 10-20 years ago. These days there are established procedures and protocols that prevent this.

ohyeshedid 5y ago
What protocols stop a person from removing the drive from your machine, and imaging the drive?
- g_p 5y ago
  Not even just that - in addition to imaging, write blockers should be used for evidential integrity as well.
- singlow 5y ago
  I think that's the point of that comment. Police have procedures now to prevent a nuke script from being effective.
- amiga-workbench 5y ago
  If only you could run your own code on the drive controller. Start obliterating data at random if the disk isn't initialized properly.

boring_twenties 5y ago

I think my point is that destroying one copy of the data is pointless when other copies exist.

hinkley 5y ago
Destroying 1 copy pretty much guarantees someone is going to go find that $5 wrench and explain to you how disappointed they are.
- staticassertion 5y ago
  If your threat model is the police, a wrench could be a best case scenario for you. If you can prove the police took a wrench to you during an interrogation you're definitely getting the case thrown out.
  - dheera 5y ago
    With police you can start a Twitter mob if you're lucky but there are ten thousand other George Floyds out there that didn't get any justice when police took wrenches, tasers, knees, guns to them. And that doesn't really apply to the CBP and the CBP equivalents of other countries. They're ruthless and can lock you up in cages, there isn't really the opportunity to start a "case" until you're past the CBP. If you aren't a citizen you sadly don't have access to a lawyer if the CBP wants to hit you with a $5 wrench, because you aren't even in the US yet.
  - kingcharles 5y ago
    LOL. Yes, possibly, but think of the time. I didn't break when the cops put a loaded gun to my head or threatened me and refused me a lawyer. I broke an hour later when they decided threatening my wife would be a better plan. It took 7 years of sitting in jail to get the judge to watch the video and throw shit out.
- bduerst 5y ago
  If violence was an option in this hypothetical, it would have already been used to get the password anyway.
  - hinkley 5y ago
    One, the wrench can be metaphorical. If you brick the device that's antagonistic. Getting you on a petty crime, as a cop, or getting $50 from your wallet as a criminal, may stop them from looking. Being combative results in retribution, and as we all know cops can be petty, and selective enforcement of rules is one of the hallmarks of Institutional sexism/classism/racism. If using Crypto While Black isn't already a thing, it's gonna be, and there's nothing you and I can do to stop it. Slow it down, absolutely, but stop it? Not without help from our kids and possibly grandkids. This isn't a chess match between equals. This is someone who can ruin your life just to make a point. Even keeping you in custody for a day or three can screw up a lot of people. The Lockpicking Lawyer put it pretty well recently. The people who make locks are following rules that nobody else is beholden to follow. The designer looks at the parts and thinks about their purpose. Their design. The picker is looking at what they can make the thing do, not what it's 'meant' to do. They are repurposing things, to circumvent the wishes of the manufacture and the consumer. That's where the wrench comes in. That's where cloning the device comes in. That's where giving the adversary a fictional win to regain your liberty comes in.
bduerst 5y ago
You're right, it's not a silver bullet but it is another defense for the probable cases that they didn't make a copy.
- boring_twenties 5y ago
  What cases would those be? Any law enforcement or customs agency will make copies.

ohyeshedid 5y ago

I think the point you responded to was talking about copying the encrypted data before attempting to unlock it.