4 ms·

The problem with >1GB/s is the energy you need to saturate it. 10GB/s needs a 10+W router and you'll need atleast 50W of compute behind that. On lead-acid if

by bullen 5y ago

The problem with >1GB/s is the energy you need to saturate it. 10GB/s needs a 10+W router and you'll need atleast 50W of compute behind that. On lead-acid if you want long battery life and a good uptime you'll need atleast 4x 50Ah batteries. 25GB/s does not scale without waste unless you are ok with having 10x lead-acid batteries in the room where you live/sleep because that energy is heating. Dunno about the hydrogen problem. Lithium only fixes the space problem in exchange of fire hazards, a hefty price increase and short battery life.

eof 5y ago
Lithium has much longer battery life? At least in terms of number of cycles.
- bullen 5y ago
  You don't need cycles, unless power outages are frequent. (good point but power outages are probably going to be correlated to our capacity to make lithium batteries at all) Lithium has ~half the longevity compared to lead-acid unless you heat/cool them like Tesla to keep them at a stable temperature (too high/low and the longevity drops like a stone because of tiny impurities between the metal sheets). NiMH is actually my preferred battery tech now, but it's WAY too expensive for the Ah you need for anything beyond say a maglite solitare LED (awesome torch btw). Lithium and high power vehicles are completely meaningless for the wider human population in the long run because electricity is NOT an energy source.
TheSoftwareGuy 5y ago
I'm confused, 50W is not a lot of electricity for an outlet. Why would you need batteries?
- vel0city 5y ago
  Battery backups for when the power goes out. There's a high correlation to the power going out to the needs of being able to communicate. If your main modes of communication go down during an emergency things can get pretty bad.
  - TheSoftwareGuy 5y ago
    For backbone infrastructure yeah. But most people don’t have their home router on a battery backup. Unless you are talking about backbone stuff?
    - vel0city 5y ago
      Its pretty common in the US. There are a lot of availability requirements on residential telephone service, so if the customer in the US bundles in phone service their device usually comes with a small UPS. Verizon ONTs usually had a battery backup built-in to the wall unit. AT&T's gateways had a UPS as a part of the 12V adapter. It seems like maybe these rules have relaxed a bit, but its still relatively common to have your home internet connection and phone service on some level of backup. This goes back to the idea that POTS usually had its own power service, so when the power goes out the phones would often still be working. When things changed over to fiber and VoIP, similar availability requirements were being applied. As mentioned I'm not sure if this is still the case, I haven't bundled phone service with internet in well over a decade. Ultimately though of course I would put at least core network things on a UPS (ONT, router, PoE switch for APs) as if the power goes out I'd want to be able to see WTF is going on. If its a big enough event to knock the power out for a little while there's a decent chance it could also lead to lots of people stressing cell networks, so you might not want to rely on that. For those core things I have on a UPS, a small-ish gel cell battery would operate them for a bit under 4 hours. I live in an area prone to both tornadoes and remnants of hurricanes though, so I'm in semi-disaster-prone area.
Youden 5y ago
Careful with case. 1GB = 1 Gigabyte. 1Gb = 1 Gigabit. Init7, the subject of this thread, supplies 25Gb/s, not 25GB/s. And why are batteries being brought into the discussion? This is a fibre service, it only operates in fixed installations, where grid electricity is available.
- bullen 5y ago
  Careful with not reading other comments... it's already explained. I misstype GB and Gb all the time because I talk about disc sizes and network all the time, but you see humans can adapt to my misstake and correct without having to tell me I'm wrong again after the edit timeout has expired... Xo But to further expand on the battery solution: humanity needs to move away from centralization ASAP, and the most efficient way to do this is to host servers at home. If you only use the fiber you have for consumption you are a slave but if you produce (and potentially sell) something of value from home you are a king. Unless of course the companies and governements take your external IPv4 away, then you're a slave again, so it's important that EVERYONE that has fiber with an external IP to use it as hosting now, so it's harder for them to undo!

by bullen 5y ago

eof 5y ago

Lithium has much longer battery life? At least in terms of number of cycles.

bullen 5y ago
You don't need cycles, unless power outages are frequent. (good point but power outages are probably going to be correlated to our capacity to make lithium batteries at all) Lithium has ~half the longevity compared to lead-acid unless you heat/cool them like Tesla to keep them at a stable temperature (too high/low and the longevity drops like a stone because of tiny impurities between the metal sheets). NiMH is actually my preferred battery tech now, but it's WAY too expensive for the Ah you need for anything beyond say a maglite solitare LED (awesome torch btw). Lithium and high power vehicles are completely meaningless for the wider human population in the long run because electricity is NOT an energy source.

TheSoftwareGuy 5y ago

I'm confused, 50W is not a lot of electricity for an outlet. Why would you need batteries?

vel0city 5y ago
Battery backups for when the power goes out. There's a high correlation to the power going out to the needs of being able to communicate. If your main modes of communication go down during an emergency things can get pretty bad.
- TheSoftwareGuy 5y ago
  For backbone infrastructure yeah. But most people don’t have their home router on a battery backup. Unless you are talking about backbone stuff?
  - vel0city 5y ago
    Its pretty common in the US. There are a lot of availability requirements on residential telephone service, so if the customer in the US bundles in phone service their device usually comes with a small UPS. Verizon ONTs usually had a battery backup built-in to the wall unit. AT&T's gateways had a UPS as a part of the 12V adapter. It seems like maybe these rules have relaxed a bit, but its still relatively common to have your home internet connection and phone service on some level of backup. This goes back to the idea that POTS usually had its own power service, so when the power goes out the phones would often still be working. When things changed over to fiber and VoIP, similar availability requirements were being applied. As mentioned I'm not sure if this is still the case, I haven't bundled phone service with internet in well over a decade. Ultimately though of course I would put at least core network things on a UPS (ONT, router, PoE switch for APs) as if the power goes out I'd want to be able to see WTF is going on. If its a big enough event to knock the power out for a little while there's a decent chance it could also lead to lots of people stressing cell networks, so you might not want to rely on that. For those core things I have on a UPS, a small-ish gel cell battery would operate them for a bit under 4 hours. I live in an area prone to both tornadoes and remnants of hurricanes though, so I'm in semi-disaster-prone area.

Youden 5y ago

Careful with case. 1GB = 1 Gigabyte. 1Gb = 1 Gigabit. Init7, the subject of this thread, supplies 25Gb/s, not 25GB/s. And why are batteries being brought into the discussion? This is a fibre service, it only operates in fixed installations, where grid electricity is available.

bullen 5y ago
Careful with not reading other comments... it's already explained. I misstype GB and Gb all the time because I talk about disc sizes and network all the time, but you see humans can adapt to my misstake and correct without having to tell me I'm wrong again after the edit timeout has expired... Xo But to further expand on the battery solution: humanity needs to move away from centralization ASAP, and the most efficient way to do this is to host servers at home. If you only use the fiber you have for consumption you are a slave but if you produce (and potentially sell) something of value from home you are a king. Unless of course the companies and governements take your external IPv4 away, then you're a slave again, so it's important that EVERYONE that has fiber with an external IP to use it as hosting now, so it's harder for them to undo!