5 ms·

Nobody trying to keep their salary a secret is holding onto good developers, or even mediocre ones.

by quxbar 5y ago

foobiekr 5y ago
This is unfortunately not true. Inertia is a huge problem.
- infamouscow 5y ago
  Care to elaborate?
  - quxpar 5y ago
    Under-paid developers with decent skills are so rare and precious, I can get $30k a head poaching them. I'll split the fee two ways if you want to let me in on your secret stockpile ;)
  - namelessoracle 5y ago
    A company that gets a solid junior and promotes them on reasonable timelines (say once every 2 years) can easily get a person with skills "beyond" what the company that hire them can really afford and the person doesn't actively try to move to a different company because we are in a industry where a flat 100k is considered low by some, but still allows a fairly comfortable life style that doesn't engender wanting to make big changes. Combine that with fear of the unknown, plus the cargo culting of hiring practices that ask for skills that dont actually get used on the job and are thus completely atrophied by actual experienced devs all encourage inertia in current role. Especially if they are getting okayish equity refreshers and are in a stable company.
    - Ancapistani 5y ago
      > and the person doesn't actively try to move to a different company because […] For me at least, there’s also the barrier of actually liking working there. I don’t take jobs at companies where I can’t see myself “drinking the Koolaid”. I want to be engaged in the product, the company, and the work culture. If I’m working somewhere that checks those boxes, it’s going to take a fairly substantial increase in compensation for it to be worthwhile for me to start over in that process.
      - namelessoracle 5y ago
        Yep theres also that dimension. Couple more to consider, like if you have a stable job, with ok pay, where you have gotten good enough at the job you get the expected quantity of work knocked out in 30 hours a week. Well yeah that new job might pay you 30k more. But it might end wanting 30 hours more a week out of you (at least when your in that ramp up time). And will probably want at least an extra 10 while your ramping up to your new role. Is it "worth" going from 30 hours a week to 40 even if salary increases? Also social networks where you are afraid of up rooting your life to go to new city that pays way more but you dont know anybody and would be starting your life over on at least one level completely over. Your primary social network might even already be at work.....
  - Ancapistani 5y ago
    I’m not the person to whom you were responding, but my experience is that companies that don’t share salary information in their postings seem to be distributed across the pay spectrum. I suspect most companies aren’t sharing because of institutional inertia. Their HR folks would probably have to propose the change internally, and from their perspective it’s just not worth the time to do so. Some companies don’t present salary bands because they know they are paying under market, and doing so would shrink their funnel. At least from the perspective of the people posting the jobs, that’s a rational decision - they likely don’t have influence over the salary, but they can decide not to post it up front. On the other side of the issue, I expect that companies that pay very well have many fewer problems getting candidates into their candidate pools. If they know they’re paying more than their competitors, posting it would only increase the number of inbound candidates when they’re not having issues in that area. More candidates means that their evaluation process would need to scale further, which means more work for them with no immediately demonstrable benefit. From the candidate’s perspective, salary information would give me one more (powerful) tool to assist me in choosing where to focus when I’m job hunting. I would discard very low salaries and spend a bit of additional time focusing on very high salaries. I’d follow up more thoroughly and aggressively with the highest paying employers. I wouldn’t immediately disregard the middle of the distribution, though, for several reasons. What’s included in the posted salary? Is it actually “salary”, or is it total comp? Are healthcare and other benefits costs accounted for? If not, what does the benefits structure for the company look like? Is equity included? How should I quantify the inherently unpredictable future value of equity? What about their vesting schedule? Is the salary offered for the specific job that’s available, or might it be possible to end up being hired into a similar position with a different title/compensation? Is there room for negotiation? Can salary itself be negotiated directly, or might I need to use more creative methods, like asking for additional PTO, stipends, etc? It’s a very hard problem, and I honestly don’t think trying to boil it down to a number (or range) offers much value to either side.
haney 5y ago
Pretty sure most FAANG companies don't list salaries on their open positions. You can find that info through 3rd party sources like Levels.fyi though.

Nobody trying to keep their salary a secret is holding onto good developers, or even mediocre ones.

by quxbar 5y ago

Nobody trying to keep their salary a secret is holding onto good developers, or even mediocre ones.

foobiekr 5y ago

This is unfortunately not true. Inertia is a huge problem.

infamouscow 5y ago
Care to elaborate?
- quxpar 5y ago
  Under-paid developers with decent skills are so rare and precious, I can get $30k a head poaching them. I'll split the fee two ways if you want to let me in on your secret stockpile ;)
- namelessoracle 5y ago
  A company that gets a solid junior and promotes them on reasonable timelines (say once every 2 years) can easily get a person with skills "beyond" what the company that hire them can really afford and the person doesn't actively try to move to a different company because we are in a industry where a flat 100k is considered low by some, but still allows a fairly comfortable life style that doesn't engender wanting to make big changes. Combine that with fear of the unknown, plus the cargo culting of hiring practices that ask for skills that dont actually get used on the job and are thus completely atrophied by actual experienced devs all encourage inertia in current role. Especially if they are getting okayish equity refreshers and are in a stable company.
  - Ancapistani 5y ago
    > and the person doesn't actively try to move to a different company because […] For me at least, there’s also the barrier of actually liking working there. I don’t take jobs at companies where I can’t see myself “drinking the Koolaid”. I want to be engaged in the product, the company, and the work culture. If I’m working somewhere that checks those boxes, it’s going to take a fairly substantial increase in compensation for it to be worthwhile for me to start over in that process.
    - namelessoracle 5y ago
      Yep theres also that dimension. Couple more to consider, like if you have a stable job, with ok pay, where you have gotten good enough at the job you get the expected quantity of work knocked out in 30 hours a week. Well yeah that new job might pay you 30k more. But it might end wanting 30 hours more a week out of you (at least when your in that ramp up time). And will probably want at least an extra 10 while your ramping up to your new role. Is it "worth" going from 30 hours a week to 40 even if salary increases? Also social networks where you are afraid of up rooting your life to go to new city that pays way more but you dont know anybody and would be starting your life over on at least one level completely over. Your primary social network might even already be at work.....
- Ancapistani 5y ago
  I’m not the person to whom you were responding, but my experience is that companies that don’t share salary information in their postings seem to be distributed across the pay spectrum. I suspect most companies aren’t sharing because of institutional inertia. Their HR folks would probably have to propose the change internally, and from their perspective it’s just not worth the time to do so. Some companies don’t present salary bands because they know they are paying under market, and doing so would shrink their funnel. At least from the perspective of the people posting the jobs, that’s a rational decision - they likely don’t have influence over the salary, but they can decide not to post it up front. On the other side of the issue, I expect that companies that pay very well have many fewer problems getting candidates into their candidate pools. If they know they’re paying more than their competitors, posting it would only increase the number of inbound candidates when they’re not having issues in that area. More candidates means that their evaluation process would need to scale further, which means more work for them with no immediately demonstrable benefit. From the candidate’s perspective, salary information would give me one more (powerful) tool to assist me in choosing where to focus when I’m job hunting. I would discard very low salaries and spend a bit of additional time focusing on very high salaries. I’d follow up more thoroughly and aggressively with the highest paying employers. I wouldn’t immediately disregard the middle of the distribution, though, for several reasons. What’s included in the posted salary? Is it actually “salary”, or is it total comp? Are healthcare and other benefits costs accounted for? If not, what does the benefits structure for the company look like? Is equity included? How should I quantify the inherently unpredictable future value of equity? What about their vesting schedule? Is the salary offered for the specific job that’s available, or might it be possible to end up being hired into a similar position with a different title/compensation? Is there room for negotiation? Can salary itself be negotiated directly, or might I need to use more creative methods, like asking for additional PTO, stipends, etc? It’s a very hard problem, and I honestly don’t think trying to boil it down to a number (or range) offers much value to either side.

haney 5y ago

Pretty sure most FAANG companies don't list salaries on their open positions. You can find that info through 3rd party sources like Levels.fyi though.