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That's not 100% true any longer. I was helping to defend a drug dealer whose assets were frozen and we looked into it - there is federal case law now saying tha

That's not 100% true any longer. I was helping to defend a drug dealer whose assets were frozen and we looked into it - there is federal case law now saying that you can use frozen assets to pay your defense attorney if the funds are not connected to criminal activity, which is an argument you can make: https://www.markjobrien.com/blog/2016/03/groundbreaking-supreme-court-ruling-on-frozen-assets/ https://www.markjobrien.com/blog/2016/03/groundbreaking-supr...

hardolaf 5y ago
But if they seize the assets through civil asset forfeiture, then they're not frozen, they're seized. And that's what happened here. When assets are frozen, they can also still be used to pay for reasonable lifestlye expenses such as housing, childcare, food, transportation, etc.
- kingcharles 5y ago
  What's the difference between frozen and seized? Frozen would have to be a request to a bank, and the same "warrant" is used as it is to seize them, essentially. If they find your money under your mattress, then it isn't going to get "frozen" at all.
  - hardolaf 5y ago
    When assets are frozen as part of a criminal case, they can't be moved or released at all by the institute holding them. At the conclusion of the criminal case, if the defendant is not guilty or the case is dropped, then they're simply unfrozen. If the defendant is found guilty, then any fines and fees will be seized from them and the remaining amount unfrozen. At all times, those assets have not moved at all. Additionally, frozen assets can be authorized to be released to pay for a defense or living expenses by the court during the case and appeals. When assets are forfeited, they're seized by the government and just tossed somewhere likely to get lost (tons of things get lost, damaged, and stolen when seized). If you even have the money left to hire a lawyer, you might be able to contest the forfeiture. But because the assets and not you are being charged, well they don't have to try very hard to let you know of the case. In almost all cases, the assets are forfeited summarily because people can't afford to get them back or they're notified too late to find an attorney and start the process of contesting the forfeiture. This process is colloquially known as theft.

hardolaf 5y ago

But if they seize the assets through civil asset forfeiture, then they're not frozen, they're seized. And that's what happened here. When assets are frozen, they can also still be used to pay for reasonable lifestlye expenses such as housing, childcare, food, transportation, etc.

kingcharles 5y ago
What's the difference between frozen and seized? Frozen would have to be a request to a bank, and the same "warrant" is used as it is to seize them, essentially. If they find your money under your mattress, then it isn't going to get "frozen" at all.
- hardolaf 5y ago
  When assets are frozen as part of a criminal case, they can't be moved or released at all by the institute holding them. At the conclusion of the criminal case, if the defendant is not guilty or the case is dropped, then they're simply unfrozen. If the defendant is found guilty, then any fines and fees will be seized from them and the remaining amount unfrozen. At all times, those assets have not moved at all. Additionally, frozen assets can be authorized to be released to pay for a defense or living expenses by the court during the case and appeals. When assets are forfeited, they're seized by the government and just tossed somewhere likely to get lost (tons of things get lost, damaged, and stolen when seized). If you even have the money left to hire a lawyer, you might be able to contest the forfeiture. But because the assets and not you are being charged, well they don't have to try very hard to let you know of the case. In almost all cases, the assets are forfeited summarily because people can't afford to get them back or they're notified too late to find an attorney and start the process of contesting the forfeiture. This process is colloquially known as theft.