4 ms·

Are you aware that if you loan your vehicle out and it's used in a crime you're liable?

josephcsible 5y ago
Maybe, but if someone steals my car and uses it in a crime I'm not. And in this hypothetical, the company didn't loan the scooter to the person who caused the car crash with it.
- pengaru 5y ago
  The crime in this case is littering, and the person your hypothetical scooter company is going to pursue for moving the litter into the road where a car hit it is quite likely to be a minor whose identity you'll never determine. But you're creating circumstances for this outcome to be probable by leaving unescured scooters littering sidewalks. Much like leaving your car idling with a key in the ignition and the doors unlocked creates circumstances for someone, possibly even a child, to climb in and commit a crime with it. It's negligence on your part.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    > The crime in this case is littering Doesn't something have to be trash for leaving it somewhere to count as littering? After all, improperly parking a car isn't littering, even if it's a Zipcar or something. > leaving your car idling with a key in the ignition and the doors unlocked But it isn't like that, since these scooters do lock their wheels.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      > Doesn't something have to be trash for leaving it somewhere to count as littering? After all, improperly parking a car isn't littering, even if it's a Zipcar or something. Any object improperly placed so as to be a public nuisance or health concern is litter. If you abandon an object obstructing sidewalks, it's a public nuisance. In the case of a zipcar improperly parked there are more relevant laws with more severe penalties, automobiles have a whole world of explicit laws governing their safe use for obvious reasons. In the case of bicycle rideshares we've long had precedent of a more responsible operator; velib in paris had dedicated bike racks for storing the bikes and the borrowers would be fined for abandoning the bikes. Velib employed staff in vans to regularly collect the bikes when they weren't returned to the racks. This is what it means to at least try not be negligent.
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        > Any object improperly placed so as to be a public nuisance or health concern is litter. Can you cite a law that says this? And does a scooter on a sidewalk meet the legal definition of "public nuisance" or "health concern"?
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Are you aware that if you loan your vehicle out and it's used in a crime you're liable? That's...very much not true. For certain torts related to the vehicle you would be liable, but unless you actively and with requisite mental state engaged in the crime, you would not be liable for a crime.

Maybe, but if someone steals my car and uses it in a crime I'm not. And in this hypothetical, the company didn't loan the scooter to the person who caused the car crash with it.

pengaru 5y ago
The crime in this case is littering, and the person your hypothetical scooter company is going to pursue for moving the litter into the road where a car hit it is quite likely to be a minor whose identity you'll never determine. But you're creating circumstances for this outcome to be probable by leaving unescured scooters littering sidewalks. Much like leaving your car idling with a key in the ignition and the doors unlocked creates circumstances for someone, possibly even a child, to climb in and commit a crime with it. It's negligence on your part.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > The crime in this case is littering Doesn't something have to be trash for leaving it somewhere to count as littering? After all, improperly parking a car isn't littering, even if it's a Zipcar or something. > leaving your car idling with a key in the ignition and the doors unlocked But it isn't like that, since these scooters do lock their wheels.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    > Doesn't something have to be trash for leaving it somewhere to count as littering? After all, improperly parking a car isn't littering, even if it's a Zipcar or something. Any object improperly placed so as to be a public nuisance or health concern is litter. If you abandon an object obstructing sidewalks, it's a public nuisance. In the case of a zipcar improperly parked there are more relevant laws with more severe penalties, automobiles have a whole world of explicit laws governing their safe use for obvious reasons. In the case of bicycle rideshares we've long had precedent of a more responsible operator; velib in paris had dedicated bike racks for storing the bikes and the borrowers would be fined for abandoning the bikes. Velib employed staff in vans to regularly collect the bikes when they weren't returned to the racks. This is what it means to at least try not be negligent.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      > Any object improperly placed so as to be a public nuisance or health concern is litter. Can you cite a law that says this? And does a scooter on a sidewalk meet the legal definition of "public nuisance" or "health concern"?

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Are you aware that if you loan your vehicle out and it's used in a crime you're liable? That's...very much not true. For certain torts related to the vehicle you would be liable, but unless you actively and with requisite mental state engaged in the crime, you would not be liable for a crime.