3 ms·

I see incels as collateral damage from the the Gender Wars. A schism intentionally driven to supplement the broader Culture Wars. I only expect this to get wors

I see incels as collateral damage from the the Gender Wars. A schism intentionally driven to supplement the broader Culture Wars. I only expect this to get worse and have no idea how it will end. Incels show up in stats but most everyone is suffering. I do know that victim blaming will continue while we learn the hard way why we had traditions in the first place.

moistly 5y ago
Incels have been around forever. Go listen to old music: abundant lyrics describing incel behaviour. Go read old books: plenty of characters who engage in incel behaviour. The only difference now is that they’ve organized themselves into echo chambers that only serve to harm themselves further.
k__ 5y ago
I wouldn't say there are any culture or gender wars going on. I think, it's simply the patriarchy is crumbling. With virtually mandatory monogamy, women had to see where to get a mate after the "top 20%" were gone, now they simply share the "good ones", whatever that means. The other side was obviously, the "bottom 80%" of men had to put in less effort, because they just had to wait for the women who didn't get "a good one". And now they wake up and nobody wants them anymore. To me this is a temporary problem. Men will learn to adapt, and things will get to a less skewed distribution again.
- cjbgkagh 5y ago
  Young men were already low social status, and now they’re even lower. Often judged on immutable characteristics like hight. In my opinion none of what you are proposing will happen. There will be a substantial uncontrolled reaction. In my opinion men and women need each other and if men withdraw and stop trying women will also suffer.
  - k__ 5y ago
    I had the impression it was the other way around. Women judged on appearence and men judged on financial success.
    - cjbgkagh 5y ago
      When young no-one has had time to be a financial success, some lucky few are born into wealth but that’s a small minority. Generally if men could change something they would have, so in order to continue discrimination it has to be done in immutable characteristics, height, hair, jawline. Women’s appearance is usually down to weight which compared to height is easy to change, yet they’re getting heavier not lighter.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      > I had the impression it was the other way around. Women judged on appearence and men judged on financial success. Women judge harshly on appearance as much as men. It's just that women tend to not be as forward with it. But women's behavior on dating apps clearly shows that women are actually far more picky than men when it comes to physical appearance. Financial success is important too - but you gotta start somewhere and looks are an easy way to start. For most men - this is unsolvable as the height standards are deeply ingrained in our culture and only 15% of men will ever meet that criterion.
      - zozbot234 5y ago
        Dating apps are an artificial environment that's inherently unfavorable to the majority of men with less readily-apparent advantages. Meet women as friends in more social environments and this is not going to be an issue.
        bradlys 5y ago
        > Meet women as friends in more social environments and this is not going to be an issue. Unfortunately - this behavior has cascaded over into the general environment. Most women I talk to now are very explicit about their beauty standards they have for the men they’re interested in dating - and they’re always quite a bit more harsh than the men I’ve talked to. But I’ve also lived on the west coast where the gender ratios from 18-35 are the worst in the country. Any major metro in the US has more men than women from 18-35 but still - it’s really bad over here. Women can be picky because they’re fine with being alone (or having a dog). Most men aren’t (thus the incredibly high suicide rates).
- francisofascii 5y ago
  I don't know. It seems like the rise of a different form of patriarchy. When only top 10% of men get the women. It could be a form similar to polygamy, like the biblical patriarchs who had multiple wives.

moistly 5y ago

Incels have been around forever. Go listen to old music: abundant lyrics describing incel behaviour. Go read old books: plenty of characters who engage in incel behaviour. The only difference now is that they’ve organized themselves into echo chambers that only serve to harm themselves further.

k__ 5y ago

I wouldn't say there are any culture or gender wars going on. I think, it's simply the patriarchy is crumbling. With virtually mandatory monogamy, women had to see where to get a mate after the "top 20%" were gone, now they simply share the "good ones", whatever that means. The other side was obviously, the "bottom 80%" of men had to put in less effort, because they just had to wait for the women who didn't get "a good one". And now they wake up and nobody wants them anymore. To me this is a temporary problem. Men will learn to adapt, and things will get to a less skewed distribution again.

cjbgkagh 5y ago
Young men were already low social status, and now they’re even lower. Often judged on immutable characteristics like hight. In my opinion none of what you are proposing will happen. There will be a substantial uncontrolled reaction. In my opinion men and women need each other and if men withdraw and stop trying women will also suffer.
- k__ 5y ago
  I had the impression it was the other way around. Women judged on appearence and men judged on financial success.
  - cjbgkagh 5y ago
    When young no-one has had time to be a financial success, some lucky few are born into wealth but that’s a small minority. Generally if men could change something they would have, so in order to continue discrimination it has to be done in immutable characteristics, height, hair, jawline. Women’s appearance is usually down to weight which compared to height is easy to change, yet they’re getting heavier not lighter.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    > I had the impression it was the other way around. Women judged on appearence and men judged on financial success. Women judge harshly on appearance as much as men. It's just that women tend to not be as forward with it. But women's behavior on dating apps clearly shows that women are actually far more picky than men when it comes to physical appearance. Financial success is important too - but you gotta start somewhere and looks are an easy way to start. For most men - this is unsolvable as the height standards are deeply ingrained in our culture and only 15% of men will ever meet that criterion.
    - zozbot234 5y ago
      Dating apps are an artificial environment that's inherently unfavorable to the majority of men with less readily-apparent advantages. Meet women as friends in more social environments and this is not going to be an issue.
      - bradlys 5y ago
        > Meet women as friends in more social environments and this is not going to be an issue. Unfortunately - this behavior has cascaded over into the general environment. Most women I talk to now are very explicit about their beauty standards they have for the men they’re interested in dating - and they’re always quite a bit more harsh than the men I’ve talked to. But I’ve also lived on the west coast where the gender ratios from 18-35 are the worst in the country. Any major metro in the US has more men than women from 18-35 but still - it’s really bad over here. Women can be picky because they’re fine with being alone (or having a dog). Most men aren’t (thus the incredibly high suicide rates).
francisofascii 5y ago
I don't know. It seems like the rise of a different form of patriarchy. When only top 10% of men get the women. It could be a form similar to polygamy, like the biblical patriarchs who had multiple wives.