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> Yes, let's make innocent people crash their cars! That'll teach the people who left the scooters there a lesson! The cars are insured, the insurance compani

> Yes, let's make innocent people crash their cars! That'll teach the people who left the scooters there a lesson! The cars are insured, the insurance companies will pursue the owners of the scooters. It's the negative feedback required to compel scooter companies to operate more responsibly.

josephcsible 5y ago
Sometimes people get hurt or killed in car crashes, which just having insurance doesn't magically fix. And besides, if I were the scooter company, I'd be going after you who intentionally threw the scooter into the road, not after the last rider who parked it somewhere inconsiderate but not dangerous.
- pengaru 5y ago
  Are you aware that if you loan your vehicle out and it's used in a crime you're liable?
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Maybe, but if someone steals my car and uses it in a crime I'm not. And in this hypothetical, the company didn't loan the scooter to the person who caused the car crash with it.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      The crime in this case is littering, and the person your hypothetical scooter company is going to pursue for moving the litter into the road where a car hit it is quite likely to be a minor whose identity you'll never determine. But you're creating circumstances for this outcome to be probable by leaving unescured scooters littering sidewalks. Much like leaving your car idling with a key in the ignition and the doors unlocked creates circumstances for someone, possibly even a child, to climb in and commit a crime with it. It's negligence on your part.
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        > The crime in this case is littering Doesn't something have to be trash for leaving it somewhere to count as littering? After all, improperly parking a car isn't littering, even if it's a Zipcar or something. > leaving your car idling with a key in the ignition and the doors unlocked But it isn't like that, since these scooters do lock their wheels.
        pengaru 5y ago
        > Doesn't something have to be trash for leaving it somewhere to count as littering? After all, improperly parking a car isn't littering, even if it's a Zipcar or something. Any object improperly placed so as to be a public nuisance or health concern is litter. If you abandon an object obstructing sidewalks, it's a public nuisance. In the case of a zipcar improperly parked there are more relevant laws with more severe penalties, automobiles have a whole world of explicit laws governing their safe use for obvious reasons. In the case of bicycle rideshares we've long had precedent of a more responsible operator; velib in paris had dedicated bike racks for storing the bikes and the borrowers would be fined for abandoning the bikes. Velib employed staff in vans to regularly collect the bikes when they weren't returned to the racks. This is what it means to at least try not be negligent.
        josephcsible 5y ago
        > Any object improperly placed so as to be a public nuisance or health concern is litter. Can you cite a law that says this? And does a scooter on a sidewalk meet the legal definition of "public nuisance" or "health concern"?
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Are you aware that if you loan your vehicle out and it's used in a crime you're liable? That's...very much not true. For certain torts related to the vehicle you would be liable, but unless you actively and with requisite mental state engaged in the crime, you would not be liable for a crime.
- manarth 5y ago
  Given that the rental scooter market is concentrated in cities, and that the roads where they're used are typically limited to 30mph or less, unless the person is actively throwing the scooter at the car, the cause of a crash would be an inattentive driver rather than a poorly-positioned scooter.
CalRobert 5y ago
I'm here for this 100% because cars destroy cities and lives except that this could kill motorcycle riders or cyclists. If you ride any debris in the road can be deadly.

josephcsible 5y ago

Sometimes people get hurt or killed in car crashes, which just having insurance doesn't magically fix. And besides, if I were the scooter company, I'd be going after you who intentionally threw the scooter into the road, not after the last rider who parked it somewhere inconsiderate but not dangerous.

pengaru 5y ago
Are you aware that if you loan your vehicle out and it's used in a crime you're liable?
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Maybe, but if someone steals my car and uses it in a crime I'm not. And in this hypothetical, the company didn't loan the scooter to the person who caused the car crash with it.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    The crime in this case is littering, and the person your hypothetical scooter company is going to pursue for moving the litter into the road where a car hit it is quite likely to be a minor whose identity you'll never determine. But you're creating circumstances for this outcome to be probable by leaving unescured scooters littering sidewalks. Much like leaving your car idling with a key in the ignition and the doors unlocked creates circumstances for someone, possibly even a child, to climb in and commit a crime with it. It's negligence on your part.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      > The crime in this case is littering Doesn't something have to be trash for leaving it somewhere to count as littering? After all, improperly parking a car isn't littering, even if it's a Zipcar or something. > leaving your car idling with a key in the ignition and the doors unlocked But it isn't like that, since these scooters do lock their wheels.
      - pengaru 5y ago
        > Doesn't something have to be trash for leaving it somewhere to count as littering? After all, improperly parking a car isn't littering, even if it's a Zipcar or something. Any object improperly placed so as to be a public nuisance or health concern is litter. If you abandon an object obstructing sidewalks, it's a public nuisance. In the case of a zipcar improperly parked there are more relevant laws with more severe penalties, automobiles have a whole world of explicit laws governing their safe use for obvious reasons. In the case of bicycle rideshares we've long had precedent of a more responsible operator; velib in paris had dedicated bike racks for storing the bikes and the borrowers would be fined for abandoning the bikes. Velib employed staff in vans to regularly collect the bikes when they weren't returned to the racks. This is what it means to at least try not be negligent.
        josephcsible 5y ago
        > Any object improperly placed so as to be a public nuisance or health concern is litter. Can you cite a law that says this? And does a scooter on a sidewalk meet the legal definition of "public nuisance" or "health concern"?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Are you aware that if you loan your vehicle out and it's used in a crime you're liable? That's...very much not true. For certain torts related to the vehicle you would be liable, but unless you actively and with requisite mental state engaged in the crime, you would not be liable for a crime.
manarth 5y ago
Given that the rental scooter market is concentrated in cities, and that the roads where they're used are typically limited to 30mph or less, unless the person is actively throwing the scooter at the car, the cause of a crash would be an inattentive driver rather than a poorly-positioned scooter.

CalRobert 5y ago

I'm here for this 100% because cars destroy cities and lives except that this could kill motorcycle riders or cyclists. If you ride any debris in the road can be deadly.