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...And other countries/states have embraced Bitcoin. The China ban was going to be "the end", fast forward less than a year and the network is stronger than ev

...And other countries/states have embraced Bitcoin. The China ban was going to be "the end", fast forward less than a year and the network is stronger than ever. It has more users than it ever has. Bitcoin continues to grow regardless of these actions. It simply doesn't care. You didn't address the difference between unilateral government-bank cooperative freezing of accounts en masse vs. what's required to strong-arm keys from a single person. Do you acknowledge they aren't even close to the same thing?

smaryjerry 5y ago
No those are very much the same thing. If you can say give me your key or go to prison, the password doesn’t work that well. I would add that crypto is no longer even decentralized as well. Good luck find someone trust worthy to trade into and out of any fiat currency with only your wallet and without using or involving a centralized exchange or program. When goods and services aren’t able to be purchased in the crypto denomination that means on and off ramps actually make buying anything with crypto more expensive after paying any exchange fees. The only benefit would be if crypto went up in relation to fiat currency, but the ones getting rich are those earlier holders only. This is because when you buy crypto you are buying from another person. That other person took your fiat money in order to sell crypto, it was never created upon the moment you bought it except with certain stable coins which are essentially just banks for regular fiat currency, not actually crypto and definitely not decentralized.
- djschnei 5y ago
  > No those are very much the same thing. You are wrong or being dishonest. The government calling up the bank and saying "Hey, friend. Freeze these 5000 accounts. Thanks!" clearly has less friction than strong-arming 5000 people for their wallet keys. > Good luck find someone trust worthy to trade into and out of any fiat currency with only your wallet and without using or involving a centralized exchange or program. I literally do this exact thing pretty frequently. HodlHodl and Bisq both allow you to do this in a trustless and decentralized way. And things will only improve with projects like 'TBD' from Dorsey. > When goods and services aren’t able to be purchased in the crypto denomination... But they are! Let's see... this week I've bought coffee with bitcoin, I've bought a new golf hat, I bought a magazine subscription, and a VPN subscription. This month I bought an iPad utilizing bitrefill. Early days? Sure. "Aren't available" is bullshit though. > The only benefit would be if crypto went up in relation to fiat currency, but the ones getting rich are those earlier holders only. What? You're just wrong... Bitcoin is up 250% in the last 2 years. I've been in for 1.5 years and it's literally out performed everything else I own.
  - smaryjerry 5y ago
    I see your point, there’s more friction at scale but on an individual level I question if the friction is enough. I hadn’t seen those programs, but it looks like they are at least able to make a trade to a traditional bank account via which does make things better even if you are limited once it gets into your bank account. I’m wondering if I could make a $1M+ transfer to an account without an issue, maybe a few hundred or thousand works fine without setting off alarms with the banks and govt simply because it’s not worth their time. But the heart of it is really being able to actually buy and sell goods and services. It seems that every time a company starts accepting it they stop, Tesla, valve, and more. I think that’s pretty much going to be determined by government regulation and the way governments tax transactions. If they are taxing it like an asset and not letting it inflate or deflate tax free like a currency then it will get really tough to do taxes for sellers. Yes earlier is better, 2 years ago is better than now and I’d probably estimate 2 years from now will be better than now as well as long as adoption continues to increase and more true use cases evolve. I may be a bit pessimistic but it feels like we should be well beyond the ability to buy and sell goods easily if it were to reach mass adoption. But obviously from your responses I have a lot to learn myself even as things are changing.

smaryjerry 5y ago

No those are very much the same thing. If you can say give me your key or go to prison, the password doesn’t work that well. I would add that crypto is no longer even decentralized as well. Good luck find someone trust worthy to trade into and out of any fiat currency with only your wallet and without using or involving a centralized exchange or program. When goods and services aren’t able to be purchased in the crypto denomination that means on and off ramps actually make buying anything with crypto more expensive after paying any exchange fees. The only benefit would be if crypto went up in relation to fiat currency, but the ones getting rich are those earlier holders only. This is because when you buy crypto you are buying from another person. That other person took your fiat money in order to sell crypto, it was never created upon the moment you bought it except with certain stable coins which are essentially just banks for regular fiat currency, not actually crypto and definitely not decentralized.

djschnei 5y ago
> No those are very much the same thing. You are wrong or being dishonest. The government calling up the bank and saying "Hey, friend. Freeze these 5000 accounts. Thanks!" clearly has less friction than strong-arming 5000 people for their wallet keys. > Good luck find someone trust worthy to trade into and out of any fiat currency with only your wallet and without using or involving a centralized exchange or program. I literally do this exact thing pretty frequently. HodlHodl and Bisq both allow you to do this in a trustless and decentralized way. And things will only improve with projects like 'TBD' from Dorsey. > When goods and services aren’t able to be purchased in the crypto denomination... But they are! Let's see... this week I've bought coffee with bitcoin, I've bought a new golf hat, I bought a magazine subscription, and a VPN subscription. This month I bought an iPad utilizing bitrefill. Early days? Sure. "Aren't available" is bullshit though. > The only benefit would be if crypto went up in relation to fiat currency, but the ones getting rich are those earlier holders only. What? You're just wrong... Bitcoin is up 250% in the last 2 years. I've been in for 1.5 years and it's literally out performed everything else I own.
- smaryjerry 5y ago
  I see your point, there’s more friction at scale but on an individual level I question if the friction is enough. I hadn’t seen those programs, but it looks like they are at least able to make a trade to a traditional bank account via which does make things better even if you are limited once it gets into your bank account. I’m wondering if I could make a $1M+ transfer to an account without an issue, maybe a few hundred or thousand works fine without setting off alarms with the banks and govt simply because it’s not worth their time. But the heart of it is really being able to actually buy and sell goods and services. It seems that every time a company starts accepting it they stop, Tesla, valve, and more. I think that’s pretty much going to be determined by government regulation and the way governments tax transactions. If they are taxing it like an asset and not letting it inflate or deflate tax free like a currency then it will get really tough to do taxes for sellers. Yes earlier is better, 2 years ago is better than now and I’d probably estimate 2 years from now will be better than now as well as long as adoption continues to increase and more true use cases evolve. I may be a bit pessimistic but it feels like we should be well beyond the ability to buy and sell goods easily if it were to reach mass adoption. But obviously from your responses I have a lot to learn myself even as things are changing.