5 ms·

Wow this thread is wild. My understanding is it's because nobody can afford their own place - either living with their parents or roommates.

halo37253 5y ago
This is very true with the Gen Zers, Especially the Early Gen Z. You folk that are in your mid 20's. Really People born after 1995 are not Millennial. Its hard to even justify people born in 94 a Millennial. You don't remember 911, and you didn't experience last last economic recession first hand in the work force. If your first out of HS job was after 2012, You are a Gen Zer. They simply are struggling, very few have moved up in their career paths. And so far have been one of the most lazy generations.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  I don't agree at all that they are a lazy generation. They've just been presented with little to no economic opportunities, especially in areas that many of them care about like climate collapse, which is an in-our-lifetime threat to them. There's not much in the way of an economic ladder, and many are saddled with a great deal of student debt because they've had it drilled into them that a degree is the only way to get a good job. Then you graduate with a degree and there are still no good jobs, but you still have to pay it off.
  - halo37253 5y ago
    I've had so many Gen Z interns that I've noticed they dont care about being fired from a job right out of College. Little Drive to keep themselves busy. They don't like to ask questions, and would rather do something wrong than ask and do it right the first time. Even If I show them how to do it right the first time, if you forget, just ask. There isn't much of a ladder to climb as Millennials are still there to fill the void. Millennials have work experience and work hard. But there is a notable gap and a Gen Zer is easy to pick from the crowd. Not all are bad though. In fact many didn't have to struggle like a Millennial did early in life. My first 5 years in the work force was slow moving up the ladder. Entering the workforce in 2008 was not pretty for me. Problem with GenZ is they didn't eat the flintstone vitamins we Millennial ate, and it shows.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      This argument is literally just true about teenagers and young adults in general, and has been true throughout history. "The youth of today" through the ages: https://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-wrong-with-young-people-today.html https://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-wrong-w... Fact of the matter is that people mature as they age, and gain responsibilities that require them to knuckle down.
abc_lisper 5y ago
Yep. Some 40% of people between the ages of 23-50 live with their parents in US(according to wsj)
- newby 5y ago
  Could you please provide some source? I find this really hard to believe. Quick googling led me to some articles about growing ratio of _young_ adults (16 - 23) living with their parents, nothing about adults.
  - gilbetron 5y ago
    Not the OP, but: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-live-with-their-parents-for-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-... 18- to 29-year-olds living with their parents was 46 before the pandemic, up to 52% now. Although it is more a regression to the mean, historically.
paulnpace 5y ago
Indeed, there are so many problems caused by the lack of housing construction (that is nationwide and codified in law) that many attribute to pretty much anything but this readily identifiable trend. I also believe it is a significant input to the trend of younger people not "bothering" to work hard. From the perspective of someone very young, it may well appear that working 40+ hours per week does little to increase their actual standard of living. This is historically demonstrated to reduce entry into the workforce so long as people are otherwise able to meet their needs (e.g., not starve or go homeless), and in the U.S. an 18 year-old used to be able to get a full-time job then with one or two buddies afford their own apartment (and own room). In many places across the U.S., they will be sharing rooms in an apartment which may be a reduction in standard of living from "mom's basement". Both "mom's basement" and room sharing may be perceived as low class and undesirable, particularly for a young man, as status is one of the historically strong factors for attracting women.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  True, and I think with the stratospheric income inequality it's becoming more obvious to many that working hard does not lead to success when investors and executives are capturing more and more of the value of companies. Nobody wants to work hard to be paid nothing while their efforts just further enrich the already-rich. This also contributes to the housing shortage as the wealthy buy up property as real estate investments and either rent them out, leaving renters with no equity to realise into deposits for better housing down the line, or leave them empty.
  - paulnpace 5y ago
    > True, and I think with the stratospheric income inequality it's becoming more obvious to many that working hard does not lead to success when investors and executives are capturing more and more of the value of companies. Nobody wants to work hard to be paid nothing while their efforts just further enrich the already-rich. This is introducing some other topic into the discussion. The problem of housing price increases is unrelated to this, and more likely related to destruction of new-business formation. The American middle class has always been lead by small businesses, and new business formation has been steadily dropping for decades. Small businesses do not suffer the same issues as working in large corporations, so when large corporations make up larger and larger percentages of the workforce, they also shift other aspects related to employment and income. > This also contributes to the housing shortage as the wealthy buy up property as real estate investments and either rent them out, leaving renters with no equity to realise into deposits for better housing down the line, or leave them empty. The housing shortage is completely a regulatory problem where the supply is artificially constricted in ways it was never previously controlled. People often think of housing as somehow not falling into the same supply and demand price function problems as other products, but this simply isn't true. The "wealthy" could never hope to purchase all of the bread fast enough to make any real dent in the price because of how rapidly the production of bread would be increased with their artificial increase in demand. This scheme can only work with artificial constriction on supply that comes from the regulations on the construction of new residential units, because without these regulatory constrictions developers would build houses until either the investors run out of money or we are all working in the home construction industry.

halo37253 5y ago

This is very true with the Gen Zers, Especially the Early Gen Z. You folk that are in your mid 20's. Really People born after 1995 are not Millennial. Its hard to even justify people born in 94 a Millennial. You don't remember 911, and you didn't experience last last economic recession first hand in the work force. If your first out of HS job was after 2012, You are a Gen Zer. They simply are struggling, very few have moved up in their career paths. And so far have been one of the most lazy generations.

beaconstudios 5y ago
I don't agree at all that they are a lazy generation. They've just been presented with little to no economic opportunities, especially in areas that many of them care about like climate collapse, which is an in-our-lifetime threat to them. There's not much in the way of an economic ladder, and many are saddled with a great deal of student debt because they've had it drilled into them that a degree is the only way to get a good job. Then you graduate with a degree and there are still no good jobs, but you still have to pay it off.
- halo37253 5y ago
  I've had so many Gen Z interns that I've noticed they dont care about being fired from a job right out of College. Little Drive to keep themselves busy. They don't like to ask questions, and would rather do something wrong than ask and do it right the first time. Even If I show them how to do it right the first time, if you forget, just ask. There isn't much of a ladder to climb as Millennials are still there to fill the void. Millennials have work experience and work hard. But there is a notable gap and a Gen Zer is easy to pick from the crowd. Not all are bad though. In fact many didn't have to struggle like a Millennial did early in life. My first 5 years in the work force was slow moving up the ladder. Entering the workforce in 2008 was not pretty for me. Problem with GenZ is they didn't eat the flintstone vitamins we Millennial ate, and it shows.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    This argument is literally just true about teenagers and young adults in general, and has been true throughout history. "The youth of today" through the ages: https://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-wrong-with-young-people-today.html https://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-wrong-w... Fact of the matter is that people mature as they age, and gain responsibilities that require them to knuckle down.

abc_lisper 5y ago

Yep. Some 40% of people between the ages of 23-50 live with their parents in US(according to wsj)

newby 5y ago
Could you please provide some source? I find this really hard to believe. Quick googling led me to some articles about growing ratio of _young_ adults (16 - 23) living with their parents, nothing about adults.
- gilbetron 5y ago
  Not the OP, but: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-live-with-their-parents-for-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-... 18- to 29-year-olds living with their parents was 46 before the pandemic, up to 52% now. Although it is more a regression to the mean, historically.

paulnpace 5y ago

Indeed, there are so many problems caused by the lack of housing construction (that is nationwide and codified in law) that many attribute to pretty much anything but this readily identifiable trend. I also believe it is a significant input to the trend of younger people not "bothering" to work hard. From the perspective of someone very young, it may well appear that working 40+ hours per week does little to increase their actual standard of living. This is historically demonstrated to reduce entry into the workforce so long as people are otherwise able to meet their needs (e.g., not starve or go homeless), and in the U.S. an 18 year-old used to be able to get a full-time job then with one or two buddies afford their own apartment (and own room). In many places across the U.S., they will be sharing rooms in an apartment which may be a reduction in standard of living from "mom's basement". Both "mom's basement" and room sharing may be perceived as low class and undesirable, particularly for a young man, as status is one of the historically strong factors for attracting women.

beaconstudios 5y ago
True, and I think with the stratospheric income inequality it's becoming more obvious to many that working hard does not lead to success when investors and executives are capturing more and more of the value of companies. Nobody wants to work hard to be paid nothing while their efforts just further enrich the already-rich. This also contributes to the housing shortage as the wealthy buy up property as real estate investments and either rent them out, leaving renters with no equity to realise into deposits for better housing down the line, or leave them empty.
- paulnpace 5y ago
  > True, and I think with the stratospheric income inequality it's becoming more obvious to many that working hard does not lead to success when investors and executives are capturing more and more of the value of companies. Nobody wants to work hard to be paid nothing while their efforts just further enrich the already-rich. This is introducing some other topic into the discussion. The problem of housing price increases is unrelated to this, and more likely related to destruction of new-business formation. The American middle class has always been lead by small businesses, and new business formation has been steadily dropping for decades. Small businesses do not suffer the same issues as working in large corporations, so when large corporations make up larger and larger percentages of the workforce, they also shift other aspects related to employment and income. > This also contributes to the housing shortage as the wealthy buy up property as real estate investments and either rent them out, leaving renters with no equity to realise into deposits for better housing down the line, or leave them empty. The housing shortage is completely a regulatory problem where the supply is artificially constricted in ways it was never previously controlled. People often think of housing as somehow not falling into the same supply and demand price function problems as other products, but this simply isn't true. The "wealthy" could never hope to purchase all of the bread fast enough to make any real dent in the price because of how rapidly the production of bread would be increased with their artificial increase in demand. This scheme can only work with artificial constriction on supply that comes from the regulations on the construction of new residential units, because without these regulatory constrictions developers would build houses until either the investors run out of money or we are all working in the home construction industry.