4 ms·

Learning curve for vim/emacs will always be too steep for most users, regardless of their merits. Big Market for TextMate, and it's pretty darn good at being p

Learning curve for vim/emacs will always be too steep for most users, regardless of their merits. Big Market for TextMate, and it's pretty darn good at being pretty good.

burgerbrain 15y ago
Are "general users" using textmate though? Vim and Emacs are both primarily programmers' editors, and my impression is that Textmate is as well.
- meatmanek 15y ago
  Still, Textmate (and ST2 and BBEdit) is nice in that you don't have to go google "Quit Textmate" or read a man page or ask someone on IRC to figure out how to quit the damn program. Other features, like Filter Through Command, are easily discoverable via the menu system. Likewise, configuration options are easily discoverable through the Preferences window. I may be a programmer, but that doesn't mean I want to learn a new language just to use my text editor. Also, I happen to like my scroll wheel.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    Eh, I can't really recall the last time I encountered a programmer outside of college that didn't use either Vim or Emacs (and I'm pretty sure all the Emacs guys know how to use Vim). "Also, I happen to like my scroll wheel." Scrollwheels work great in Vim? I have mine set up to do kinetic scrolling even.. Nice to have over ssh. Edit: Also yeah, gvim has menus.
    - seanyseanysean 15y ago
      Due to the limits of ncurses you can't scroll over a page without moving the cursor though which is really annoying. :(
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        That doesn't seem to be true at all. I scroll in vim on my thinkpad all the time, the setup of which makes it very simple to scroll (I have that mapped to my entire touchpad) without moving the cursor (which is only done with the clit-mouse).
  - derleth 15y ago
    > Also, I happen to like my scroll wheel. Use a modern version of emacs. > I may be a programmer, but that doesn't mean I want to learn a new language just to use my text editor. You don't need to program emacs to use it to edit source code and interoperate with revision control and so on. A lot of other emacs hackers have done all that for you, in many cases upwards of 20 years ago. > Likewise, configuration options are easily discoverable through the Preferences window. Believe it or not, modern emacs has this. It's accessible the menu at the top of the window (or, in Mac-land, screen), even. > Other features, like Filter Through Command, are easily discoverable via the menu system. Again, odd as it may seem, emacs has this as well these days. > you don't have to go google "Quit Textmate" And emacs can be quit through the menu. You know, the one at the top of the window or screen. Unless you started it in a terminal window or some other text-only context, in which case you damned well got what you asked for.

Learning curve for vim/emacs will always be too steep for most users, regardless of their merits. Big Market for TextMate, and it's pretty darn good at being pretty good.

burgerbrain 15y ago

Are "general users" using textmate though? Vim and Emacs are both primarily programmers' editors, and my impression is that Textmate is as well.

meatmanek 15y ago
Still, Textmate (and ST2 and BBEdit) is nice in that you don't have to go google "Quit Textmate" or read a man page or ask someone on IRC to figure out how to quit the damn program. Other features, like Filter Through Command, are easily discoverable via the menu system. Likewise, configuration options are easily discoverable through the Preferences window. I may be a programmer, but that doesn't mean I want to learn a new language just to use my text editor. Also, I happen to like my scroll wheel.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Eh, I can't really recall the last time I encountered a programmer outside of college that didn't use either Vim or Emacs (and I'm pretty sure all the Emacs guys know how to use Vim). "Also, I happen to like my scroll wheel." Scrollwheels work great in Vim? I have mine set up to do kinetic scrolling even.. Nice to have over ssh. Edit: Also yeah, gvim has menus.
  - seanyseanysean 15y ago
    Due to the limits of ncurses you can't scroll over a page without moving the cursor though which is really annoying. :(
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      That doesn't seem to be true at all. I scroll in vim on my thinkpad all the time, the setup of which makes it very simple to scroll (I have that mapped to my entire touchpad) without moving the cursor (which is only done with the clit-mouse).
- derleth 15y ago
  > Also, I happen to like my scroll wheel. Use a modern version of emacs. > I may be a programmer, but that doesn't mean I want to learn a new language just to use my text editor. You don't need to program emacs to use it to edit source code and interoperate with revision control and so on. A lot of other emacs hackers have done all that for you, in many cases upwards of 20 years ago. > Likewise, configuration options are easily discoverable through the Preferences window. Believe it or not, modern emacs has this. It's accessible the menu at the top of the window (or, in Mac-land, screen), even. > Other features, like Filter Through Command, are easily discoverable via the menu system. Again, odd as it may seem, emacs has this as well these days. > you don't have to go google "Quit Textmate" And emacs can be quit through the menu. You know, the one at the top of the window or screen. Unless you started it in a terminal window or some other text-only context, in which case you damned well got what you asked for.