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This looks pretty cool but I've always thought if Dune got a 4X treatment it should get a full galactic setting, not just Arrakis. After all, only a fraction of

This looks pretty cool but I've always thought if Dune got a 4X treatment it should get a full galactic setting, not just Arrakis. After all, only a fraction of the first book is really set on Arrakis* (spoilers) and so much of the politics that makes the series interesting happens off-world. Nonetheless, I'm excited about the prospect of a new Dune strategy game. * the collapse of House Atreides, Paul's exodus and the Fremen uprising

lelandfe 5y ago
Between Stellaris and Endless Space, I'm not sure how much creativity would be available to a new space-based 4X game. Spice Wars is interesting to me because the setting and mechanics look pretty novel for a genre that can admittedly get samey.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  Well I don't know about Endless Space but Stellaris is very focused on exploration and economic growth. I think that a good thematic Dune treatment would be well served by focusing on politics and plotting - after all, the book is much more about courtly intrigue than space warfare.
  - mtsr 5y ago
    Indeed. Similarly to how a game like Crusader Kings or Europa Universalis is great partly because of the lack of exploration.
jeffwask 5y ago
Dune did get the 4X treatment (well 1992 4x) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(video_game) I've been waiting for this remake. This was one of my favorites back in the day.
- 2000UltraDeluxe 5y ago
  It's a brilliant game. The Amiga soundtrack is still one of the best out there. The Dune-themed RTS games from Westwood were cool too.
- htaunay 5y ago
  Technically it didn't, it was more of an RTS game while 4X tends to be more complex and last longer, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X#Complexity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X#Complexity Although it was indeed a great game and am also looking forward to see how this turns out.
  - the_af 5y ago
    > it was more of an RTS game I think you mean the other classic Dune game, which was an RTS. This Dune game the parent comment refers to was a mix between realtime simulation, RPG and point-and-click adventure. You had to converse with family members, travel to Fremen Sietches, etc. I agree neither game was 4X, though.
    - htaunay 5y ago
      Indeed, I stand corrected. Also, TIL that Dune and Dune II were both released in the same year (1992) by two different studios with different genres, with the latter eclipsing the former, despite the former apparently being quite good for what it aimed to be.
      - soneil 5y ago
        Both studios were operating under different parts of Virgin. Virgin Interactive owned Cryo, commissioned Dune, then later cancelled it. Virgin Entertainment kept funding the project, and Cryo kept working on it. Virgin Games engaged Westwood in the states, and the two projects continued in parallel. Don't adjust your set, there really is three different Virgins in the picture. When they figured out they'd paid for & delivered on the game they though they cancelled, they just went ahead and released both. It's a good part of why Westwood's very next step was to get off the Dune IP (the other part being the cost).
decafninja 5y ago
Only a handful of other worlds are described beyond a very rudimentary amount of detail though, no? So there would have to be an extreme amount of extrapolating.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  There's the Dune Encyclopedia you could reference, that collates a lot of the worldbuilding notes that Frank Herbert created.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    found here https://archive.org/details/dune-encyclopedia-the-complete-authorized-guide-and-companion-oef/Dune%20Encyclopedia%20The%20Complete%2C%20Authorized%20Guide%20and%20Companion%20%5BOEF%5D/ https://archive.org/details/dune-encyclopedia-the-complete-a...
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    The Dune Encyclopedia was not based on any inside information from Frank Herbert. It was essentially an officially licensed fanwork -- much of the information in the Encyclopedia was wild speculation on the part of the authors.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      Oh, I did not know this - thanks for the correction. I remember being told that it was compiled from his notes but I guess that was mistaken.
      - duskwuff 5y ago
        > I remember being told that it was compiled from his notes but I guess that was mistaken. You may be confusing the Dune Encyclopedia with Brian Herbert's novels, which he claims are based on his father's notes (but probably aren't). Frank Herbert actually wrote a foreword to the Dune Encyclopedia, in which he noted that: "I must confess that I found it fascinating to re-enter here some of the sources on which the Chronicles are built. As the first 'Dune fan,' I give this encyclopedia my delighted approval, although I hold my own counsel on some of the issues still to be explored as the Chronicles unfold."
laserbeam 5y ago
Hey, it's a big fraction of the first book :p But yeah, space operas deserve the whole space in 4X games. Maybe a mix of king of the hill and 4X, with arakis in the center would also be cool to explore (no idea if it would work). Or a 4X with both planetary (arakis) and interplanetary layers (other planets). With different units, tech trees, unique resources to both layers... Who knows what could work.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  There's actually an awful lot of conversations going on in the background of the first book - loads between House Harkonnen, conversations between Lady Jessica and the Reverend Mother, and with Leto and his entourage. There's also a ton of in-Sietch conversations between the members of Sietch Tabr. The warfare on Arrakis doesn't feature all that much compared to culture and politics! I do think there's a lot of space to explore (pun not intended) with 4X games - "conquer everything with guns" is pretty overdone by this point. I'm really interested in what games can do outside of violence where the options haven't been explored as much.
naravara 5y ago
A galactic scaled version of Crusader Kings would probably do the best job of simulating the focus of the books. It would need a pretty deep new negotiation/trade discussion mechanic though.

lelandfe 5y ago

Between Stellaris and Endless Space, I'm not sure how much creativity would be available to a new space-based 4X game. Spice Wars is interesting to me because the setting and mechanics look pretty novel for a genre that can admittedly get samey.

beaconstudios 5y ago
Well I don't know about Endless Space but Stellaris is very focused on exploration and economic growth. I think that a good thematic Dune treatment would be well served by focusing on politics and plotting - after all, the book is much more about courtly intrigue than space warfare.
- mtsr 5y ago
  Indeed. Similarly to how a game like Crusader Kings or Europa Universalis is great partly because of the lack of exploration.

jeffwask 5y ago

Dune did get the 4X treatment (well 1992 4x) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(video_game) I've been waiting for this remake. This was one of my favorites back in the day.

2000UltraDeluxe 5y ago
It's a brilliant game. The Amiga soundtrack is still one of the best out there. The Dune-themed RTS games from Westwood were cool too.
htaunay 5y ago
Technically it didn't, it was more of an RTS game while 4X tends to be more complex and last longer, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X#Complexity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X#Complexity Although it was indeed a great game and am also looking forward to see how this turns out.
- the_af 5y ago
  > it was more of an RTS game I think you mean the other classic Dune game, which was an RTS. This Dune game the parent comment refers to was a mix between realtime simulation, RPG and point-and-click adventure. You had to converse with family members, travel to Fremen Sietches, etc. I agree neither game was 4X, though.
  - htaunay 5y ago
    Indeed, I stand corrected. Also, TIL that Dune and Dune II were both released in the same year (1992) by two different studios with different genres, with the latter eclipsing the former, despite the former apparently being quite good for what it aimed to be.
    - soneil 5y ago
      Both studios were operating under different parts of Virgin. Virgin Interactive owned Cryo, commissioned Dune, then later cancelled it. Virgin Entertainment kept funding the project, and Cryo kept working on it. Virgin Games engaged Westwood in the states, and the two projects continued in parallel. Don't adjust your set, there really is three different Virgins in the picture. When they figured out they'd paid for & delivered on the game they though they cancelled, they just went ahead and released both. It's a good part of why Westwood's very next step was to get off the Dune IP (the other part being the cost).

decafninja 5y ago

Only a handful of other worlds are described beyond a very rudimentary amount of detail though, no? So there would have to be an extreme amount of extrapolating.

beaconstudios 5y ago
There's the Dune Encyclopedia you could reference, that collates a lot of the worldbuilding notes that Frank Herbert created.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  found here https://archive.org/details/dune-encyclopedia-the-complete-authorized-guide-and-companion-oef/Dune%20Encyclopedia%20The%20Complete%2C%20Authorized%20Guide%20and%20Companion%20%5BOEF%5D/ https://archive.org/details/dune-encyclopedia-the-complete-a...
- duskwuff 5y ago
  The Dune Encyclopedia was not based on any inside information from Frank Herbert. It was essentially an officially licensed fanwork -- much of the information in the Encyclopedia was wild speculation on the part of the authors.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    Oh, I did not know this - thanks for the correction. I remember being told that it was compiled from his notes but I guess that was mistaken.
    - duskwuff 5y ago
      > I remember being told that it was compiled from his notes but I guess that was mistaken. You may be confusing the Dune Encyclopedia with Brian Herbert's novels, which he claims are based on his father's notes (but probably aren't). Frank Herbert actually wrote a foreword to the Dune Encyclopedia, in which he noted that: "I must confess that I found it fascinating to re-enter here some of the sources on which the Chronicles are built. As the first 'Dune fan,' I give this encyclopedia my delighted approval, although I hold my own counsel on some of the issues still to be explored as the Chronicles unfold."

laserbeam 5y ago

Hey, it's a big fraction of the first book :p But yeah, space operas deserve the whole space in 4X games. Maybe a mix of king of the hill and 4X, with arakis in the center would also be cool to explore (no idea if it would work). Or a 4X with both planetary (arakis) and interplanetary layers (other planets). With different units, tech trees, unique resources to both layers... Who knows what could work.

beaconstudios 5y ago
There's actually an awful lot of conversations going on in the background of the first book - loads between House Harkonnen, conversations between Lady Jessica and the Reverend Mother, and with Leto and his entourage. There's also a ton of in-Sietch conversations between the members of Sietch Tabr. The warfare on Arrakis doesn't feature all that much compared to culture and politics! I do think there's a lot of space to explore (pun not intended) with 4X games - "conquer everything with guns" is pretty overdone by this point. I'm really interested in what games can do outside of violence where the options haven't been explored as much.

naravara 5y ago

A galactic scaled version of Crusader Kings would probably do the best job of simulating the focus of the books. It would need a pretty deep new negotiation/trade discussion mechanic though.