7 ms·

After some bad experiences I will never visit an Arab country again. They'll have to do something against the sexism, constant heckling and the bad state of law

After some bad experiences I will never visit an Arab country again. They'll have to do something against the sexism, constant heckling and the bad state of law before I even think about going there. Or they can do whatever they want, they don't have to change just for me. I'm 6 ft 6 and I have a blonde wife who's just a bit smaller. Even though we behaved very polite and dressed like locals it was like we had a big target on our backs and were looked upon with resentment everywhere we went. I will not mention the countries we visited but it was pretty much the same everywhere.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
Which country?
dicroce 5y ago
I'm 6'6"... I wish you would mention the countries so I can make sure to never go.
- celticninja 5y ago
  Dubai, UAE, basically any supposed theocracy run by sheikhs should be avoided.
  - 2143 5y ago
  - Jerrrry 5y ago
    If you are above 6'6", you are constantly a target for drunk people wanting to hit someone and run. This is much more common than you think in cities. Source: 7'
cryptolake 5y ago
As someone from an arab country i can say, this is true, sexual harassment is rampant and people see women more or less like an object than a human being.
mrwnmonm 5y ago
Are you western? I get really bored hearing someone talking about us like this. While your knowledge about Arab countries comes from an all-inclusive trip to Tunisia or something. The west always plays a big role in keeping dictators all over the place, who don't care about education or anything other than their chair. People are ignorant and if you look fancy or different, even if you are native, they will look at you like that. Not entirely your fault, but your politicians love it, and use their super powers to keep it as it is.
- mbg721 5y ago
  Where the Western "Oh god, it's so tiring vacationing amongst the sahhhvages. Pass the gin, darling?" reaction still happens, it's based on the perception that in the tourist's home country, the law means what it says, and in the visited country, context is king. That's a useful adjustment to make. However, law enforcement in the West seems to be catching up in that respect.
- feupan 5y ago
  What a weird comment full of assumptions and hatred. Nothing in the parent comment warrants what you said. What happens in practice is that being white in poorer countries makes you stand out and sometimes this comes with negative feelings of being unwanted there. This is just a fact being told and it doesn’t justify a “you guys and your politics” comment. It’s just to point out, perhaps, that some places are more welcoming of foreigners than others.
  - LightG 5y ago
    From my point of view, I could say "What a weird comment full of assumptions and hatred" about the parent comment. I've travelled back and forth from Dubai for business and other emirates and countries and never had that experience. When you say "fact being told", you actually mean "anecdote being shared". Nothing from my experience indicates an automatic feeling of hatred towards me and my wife when going to these countries. In fact, the opposite. And don't get me wrong. I have my issues with these countries and their governments, just like I have my issues with many other countries, but that doesn't mean you dismiss the entire population. Maybe it's time you engaged with the cultures. I'm sure it'll be "No thanks". Surprise me.
pcardoso 5y ago
I must say I visited Jordan with my wife in 2020, right before the pandemic and I had a wonderful experience. No heckling, we felt safe all the time, people didn't rip us off, and when looked at we felt it was more curiosity than anything else. We loved it. I'm learning arabic on Duolingo now because I got curious about the script. Of course, YMMV.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  Did you see Petra? How was it?
  - pcardoso 5y ago
    Yes, it was great. We were free to roam around inside and saw most of it, up to the monastery, and then up to another viewpoint ("the best view in the world"). I think we walked about 20km that day. It was worth it. We bought tickets for the Petra by night show, and while it was good, we felt it was a bit expensive for what it was. The martian landscapes of Wadi Rum were equally as good.
    - noneeeed 5y ago
      I was quite saddened by the number of people who go to petra and only factor in a few hours, never going much further than the treasury. I appreciate not everyone has a lot of time in their itinerary, but that seems to be one part you should make the time for. We had two full days there and it was such an extraordinary site to look around. And I'm pretty sure there were about 5 "Best view in the world" :) Although all of them could make a pretty good claim to the title, it's a stunning area.
- inopinatus 5y ago
  I'll echo that, having had exactly the same experience in 2018. We stand out almost everywhere - I'm Caucasian with a rugby player's build, and my partner is tall and very obviously East Asian. Yet there was no heckling, no scams, no soliciting for bribes, at most there was friendly interest when interacting with locals. I fully expected to need grifter repellent from time to time, and but it was not so. So I'll also pipe up for Jordan. I know it's not a perfect country, but to us it felt safe, in the way that some other nations don't, and we weren't confining ourselves to the usual tourist spots of Amman, Petra, and Wadi Rum, but also wandering further afield besides. Yet I've felt more at risk in parts of Europe, Russia, and China. I just checked some global indexes and was not surprised to find that Jordan ranks #1 for literacy and medicine in the region, despite being one of the nations without oil revenue. In my experience it carried itself with the patina of both storied history and modern education.
pradn 5y ago
I went to Egypt a few months ago and was met with incredibly warm people, with perhaps even an excess of hospitality. Yes, you do get charged extra for being a tourist at the tourist spots. But that's only a small part of the country. That said, I am Indian and was met as an Egyptian most of the time (people would start speaking to me in Arabic 70% of the time), so I had the benefit of fitting in well. The delicious food, the serene Nile, the magnificent range of art, the tea shops, and the people - the country is worth a visit even if you aren't into ancient Egyptian stuff. Travel is always a risk, so there's that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mrwnmonm 5y ago
  I am an Egyptian, thanks for your comment. The last time I visited Dahab (a very simple yet beautiful place in Sinai, not sure if you know it or not), I saw an Arab man, from his accent it was clear he is not an Egyptian, maybe he is a Saudi or Kuwaiti, he was having a discussion with the Hotel's reception about being charged more just because he is not an Egyptian. This is just something stupid they do to get more money. I am sorry that you had to pay more for the same service.
  - pradn 5y ago
    I've heard wonderful things about Dahab! I'd love to visit if I get to go back to Egypt. I didn't mind the overcharging too much when it was obvious. Like it was funny to me and the taxi driver that he was charging too much, and we had a laugh about it. Coming from the USA, the flight cost far dominated any expenses from when I was in Egypt. The one time it did feel bad was when the tour guide I hired, who seemed to be on my side, let me be overcharged by someone he had a prior arrangement with. But alas he was so knowledgable. I realize all this is only a small part of Egypt and it's not fair to judge a whole country by a few bad apples. One of my new Egyptian friends wanted me to try so many types of food that he sent me home with two extra bags of stuff. That's excessive hospitality :)
  - slim 5y ago
webmobdev 5y ago
It's probably because you dressed as local.
3pt14159 5y ago
How about having an international bribery conspiracy pinned on you? Happened to my pops because he, a German-born Canadian of Turkish and German descent, refused to pay bribes. I was actually conceived while he was out there in Saudi Arabia with my mom and they came back to Canada to have me but not before a giant RCMP investigation kicked off that ended up in Canadian parliament because courts didn't have jurisdiction at that time. The only reason he didn't go to jail was ONE GUY, a young Lebanese dude with a family and a nascent green card to America had the balls to go against everyone else in the conspiracy. He freely testified that he was the one that actually carried the cash between the parties involved—implicating himself and risking his family's future—and he knew just who was guilty and who wasn't and the one guy who wasn't in on it was my father. Later, he met with some American officials and they said something along the lines of "don't worry about your green card, we want more Americans like you" to the Lebanese dude. Later my parents made him and his wife my godparents and we talk on the phone even to this day. But think about it. Dozens of well-off people conspired to pin prison time on some random person from Canada who wouldn't hurt a soul. Fuck. That.
2143 5y ago
> They'll have to do something against the sexism They're working on it. The situation has improved. There's a long way to go, but there's progress. Give it a 100 more years. > dressed like locals Please don't do that. It just looks weird when foreigners do it. Just wear what you would normally wear in your western country. (Although, a bikini is probably not a good idea). > were looked upon with resentment everywhere we went. I've lived in USA for a while. Although people were generally very friendly, I have definitely been looked at with resentment from America for no good reason.
- AtlasBarfed 5y ago
  IMO it is very unlikely Dubai functionally exists in 100 years. The end of the oil age, global warming, war, decay. Then the sand will consume it. I predict it will be a fascinating ghost city, almost like a bizarro-pyramids/sphinx/etc.
  - 2143 5y ago
    The oil kings realised long ago they'll run out of oil eventually. So they've diversified into other businesses. It's now a hub of business activities that have nothing to do with oil. Global warming — yes that's a problem, but Dubai won't be the only place affected by it. War — what makes you think there'll be a war? Whatever it is, it's just speculation at this point. As long as a certain war-o-phile country doesn't decide to flatten it. decay — huh?! What decay?! > Then the sand will consume it. Sandman!
    - AtlasBarfed 5y ago
      Physically it's like when I fly over Arizona and Las Vegas. Those are preposterous settlements. Dubai is that to the nth degree. Dubai is so recently and explosively settled, you may not understand what I mean by decay. Cities evolve, change, decay, and hopefully renew. Dubai is a product of aggressive investment/subsidy by the royalty, directly or not. Parts of the city will decline. Aspects of the city will decline. Decay is inevitable, it's entropy. Cities are like life: they must actively renew themselves or they fade. Dubai also is basically a modern slave labor state. How long will that persist? It seems untenable in the long term. Either the slave labor will leave or dry up, or rebel. Dubai is attached to the oil age. It's excesses, abuses, etc are forgiven by the world elite because of the flow of oil money. That is going to end. Demand is going to PLUMMET worldwide as EVs displace first consumer transport, then local goods delivery, then long haul ground transport. Somewhere in the middle of "consumer transport" and "local goods delivery" the demand will drop by such a large and extended amount that the price won't really be profitable anymore. Diversification is obviously the aim, and while this isn't authoritative, I've seen this in action with the bizarre satellite/branch universities Saudi Arabia paid various western universities to set up. Just because you throw money at it doesn't mean it sticks. Those universities couldn't find the people that would do the work of academia beyond the usual bullshit of rubber stamp diplomas that universities currently make sausage with. The sand will consume it. Dubai has to actively keep sand dunes away. If that stops, and what if a section of a city decays and isn't work keeping the dunes away? Yes, the sand will "consume" it. The oil kings are attempting the "pivot". They are fat, lazy, and unmotivated.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago

Which country?

dicroce 5y ago

I'm 6'6"... I wish you would mention the countries so I can make sure to never go.

celticninja 5y ago
Dubai, UAE, basically any supposed theocracy run by sheikhs should be avoided.
- 2143 5y ago
- Jerrrry 5y ago
  If you are above 6'6", you are constantly a target for drunk people wanting to hit someone and run. This is much more common than you think in cities. Source: 7'

cryptolake 5y ago

As someone from an arab country i can say, this is true, sexual harassment is rampant and people see women more or less like an object than a human being.

mrwnmonm 5y ago

Are you western? I get really bored hearing someone talking about us like this. While your knowledge about Arab countries comes from an all-inclusive trip to Tunisia or something. The west always plays a big role in keeping dictators all over the place, who don't care about education or anything other than their chair. People are ignorant and if you look fancy or different, even if you are native, they will look at you like that. Not entirely your fault, but your politicians love it, and use their super powers to keep it as it is.

mbg721 5y ago
Where the Western "Oh god, it's so tiring vacationing amongst the sahhhvages. Pass the gin, darling?" reaction still happens, it's based on the perception that in the tourist's home country, the law means what it says, and in the visited country, context is king. That's a useful adjustment to make. However, law enforcement in the West seems to be catching up in that respect.
feupan 5y ago
What a weird comment full of assumptions and hatred. Nothing in the parent comment warrants what you said. What happens in practice is that being white in poorer countries makes you stand out and sometimes this comes with negative feelings of being unwanted there. This is just a fact being told and it doesn’t justify a “you guys and your politics” comment. It’s just to point out, perhaps, that some places are more welcoming of foreigners than others.
- LightG 5y ago
  From my point of view, I could say "What a weird comment full of assumptions and hatred" about the parent comment. I've travelled back and forth from Dubai for business and other emirates and countries and never had that experience. When you say "fact being told", you actually mean "anecdote being shared". Nothing from my experience indicates an automatic feeling of hatred towards me and my wife when going to these countries. In fact, the opposite. And don't get me wrong. I have my issues with these countries and their governments, just like I have my issues with many other countries, but that doesn't mean you dismiss the entire population. Maybe it's time you engaged with the cultures. I'm sure it'll be "No thanks". Surprise me.

pcardoso 5y ago

I must say I visited Jordan with my wife in 2020, right before the pandemic and I had a wonderful experience. No heckling, we felt safe all the time, people didn't rip us off, and when looked at we felt it was more curiosity than anything else. We loved it. I'm learning arabic on Duolingo now because I got curious about the script. Of course, YMMV.

rsj_hn 5y ago
Did you see Petra? How was it?
- pcardoso 5y ago
  Yes, it was great. We were free to roam around inside and saw most of it, up to the monastery, and then up to another viewpoint ("the best view in the world"). I think we walked about 20km that day. It was worth it. We bought tickets for the Petra by night show, and while it was good, we felt it was a bit expensive for what it was. The martian landscapes of Wadi Rum were equally as good.
  - noneeeed 5y ago
    I was quite saddened by the number of people who go to petra and only factor in a few hours, never going much further than the treasury. I appreciate not everyone has a lot of time in their itinerary, but that seems to be one part you should make the time for. We had two full days there and it was such an extraordinary site to look around. And I'm pretty sure there were about 5 "Best view in the world" :) Although all of them could make a pretty good claim to the title, it's a stunning area.
inopinatus 5y ago
I'll echo that, having had exactly the same experience in 2018. We stand out almost everywhere - I'm Caucasian with a rugby player's build, and my partner is tall and very obviously East Asian. Yet there was no heckling, no scams, no soliciting for bribes, at most there was friendly interest when interacting with locals. I fully expected to need grifter repellent from time to time, and but it was not so. So I'll also pipe up for Jordan. I know it's not a perfect country, but to us it felt safe, in the way that some other nations don't, and we weren't confining ourselves to the usual tourist spots of Amman, Petra, and Wadi Rum, but also wandering further afield besides. Yet I've felt more at risk in parts of Europe, Russia, and China. I just checked some global indexes and was not surprised to find that Jordan ranks #1 for literacy and medicine in the region, despite being one of the nations without oil revenue. In my experience it carried itself with the patina of both storied history and modern education.

pradn 5y ago

I went to Egypt a few months ago and was met with incredibly warm people, with perhaps even an excess of hospitality. Yes, you do get charged extra for being a tourist at the tourist spots. But that's only a small part of the country. That said, I am Indian and was met as an Egyptian most of the time (people would start speaking to me in Arabic 70% of the time), so I had the benefit of fitting in well. The delicious food, the serene Nile, the magnificent range of art, the tea shops, and the people - the country is worth a visit even if you aren't into ancient Egyptian stuff. Travel is always a risk, so there's that.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mrwnmonm 5y ago
I am an Egyptian, thanks for your comment. The last time I visited Dahab (a very simple yet beautiful place in Sinai, not sure if you know it or not), I saw an Arab man, from his accent it was clear he is not an Egyptian, maybe he is a Saudi or Kuwaiti, he was having a discussion with the Hotel's reception about being charged more just because he is not an Egyptian. This is just something stupid they do to get more money. I am sorry that you had to pay more for the same service.
- pradn 5y ago
  I've heard wonderful things about Dahab! I'd love to visit if I get to go back to Egypt. I didn't mind the overcharging too much when it was obvious. Like it was funny to me and the taxi driver that he was charging too much, and we had a laugh about it. Coming from the USA, the flight cost far dominated any expenses from when I was in Egypt. The one time it did feel bad was when the tour guide I hired, who seemed to be on my side, let me be overcharged by someone he had a prior arrangement with. But alas he was so knowledgable. I realize all this is only a small part of Egypt and it's not fair to judge a whole country by a few bad apples. One of my new Egyptian friends wanted me to try so many types of food that he sent me home with two extra bags of stuff. That's excessive hospitality :)
- slim 5y ago

webmobdev 5y ago

It's probably because you dressed as local.

3pt14159 5y ago

How about having an international bribery conspiracy pinned on you? Happened to my pops because he, a German-born Canadian of Turkish and German descent, refused to pay bribes. I was actually conceived while he was out there in Saudi Arabia with my mom and they came back to Canada to have me but not before a giant RCMP investigation kicked off that ended up in Canadian parliament because courts didn't have jurisdiction at that time. The only reason he didn't go to jail was ONE GUY, a young Lebanese dude with a family and a nascent green card to America had the balls to go against everyone else in the conspiracy. He freely testified that he was the one that actually carried the cash between the parties involved—implicating himself and risking his family's future—and he knew just who was guilty and who wasn't and the one guy who wasn't in on it was my father. Later, he met with some American officials and they said something along the lines of "don't worry about your green card, we want more Americans like you" to the Lebanese dude. Later my parents made him and his wife my godparents and we talk on the phone even to this day. But think about it. Dozens of well-off people conspired to pin prison time on some random person from Canada who wouldn't hurt a soul. Fuck. That.

2143 5y ago

> They'll have to do something against the sexism They're working on it. The situation has improved. There's a long way to go, but there's progress. Give it a 100 more years. > dressed like locals Please don't do that. It just looks weird when foreigners do it. Just wear what you would normally wear in your western country. (Although, a bikini is probably not a good idea). > were looked upon with resentment everywhere we went. I've lived in USA for a while. Although people were generally very friendly, I have definitely been looked at with resentment from America for no good reason.

AtlasBarfed 5y ago
IMO it is very unlikely Dubai functionally exists in 100 years. The end of the oil age, global warming, war, decay. Then the sand will consume it. I predict it will be a fascinating ghost city, almost like a bizarro-pyramids/sphinx/etc.
- 2143 5y ago
  The oil kings realised long ago they'll run out of oil eventually. So they've diversified into other businesses. It's now a hub of business activities that have nothing to do with oil. Global warming — yes that's a problem, but Dubai won't be the only place affected by it. War — what makes you think there'll be a war? Whatever it is, it's just speculation at this point. As long as a certain war-o-phile country doesn't decide to flatten it. decay — huh?! What decay?! > Then the sand will consume it. Sandman!
  - AtlasBarfed 5y ago
    Physically it's like when I fly over Arizona and Las Vegas. Those are preposterous settlements. Dubai is that to the nth degree. Dubai is so recently and explosively settled, you may not understand what I mean by decay. Cities evolve, change, decay, and hopefully renew. Dubai is a product of aggressive investment/subsidy by the royalty, directly or not. Parts of the city will decline. Aspects of the city will decline. Decay is inevitable, it's entropy. Cities are like life: they must actively renew themselves or they fade. Dubai also is basically a modern slave labor state. How long will that persist? It seems untenable in the long term. Either the slave labor will leave or dry up, or rebel. Dubai is attached to the oil age. It's excesses, abuses, etc are forgiven by the world elite because of the flow of oil money. That is going to end. Demand is going to PLUMMET worldwide as EVs displace first consumer transport, then local goods delivery, then long haul ground transport. Somewhere in the middle of "consumer transport" and "local goods delivery" the demand will drop by such a large and extended amount that the price won't really be profitable anymore. Diversification is obviously the aim, and while this isn't authoritative, I've seen this in action with the bizarre satellite/branch universities Saudi Arabia paid various western universities to set up. Just because you throw money at it doesn't mean it sticks. Those universities couldn't find the people that would do the work of academia beyond the usual bullshit of rubber stamp diplomas that universities currently make sausage with. The sand will consume it. Dubai has to actively keep sand dunes away. If that stops, and what if a section of a city decays and isn't work keeping the dunes away? Yes, the sand will "consume" it. The oil kings are attempting the "pivot". They are fat, lazy, and unmotivated.