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> The hardware itself also got worse. Removal of all but 2 USB-C ports from MacBook Pro was a last nail to the coffin for me. Small correction, the latest MacB

> The hardware itself also got worse. Removal of all but 2 USB-C ports from MacBook Pro was a last nail to the coffin for me. Small correction, the latest MacBook Pro has 4 USB-c ports and an HDMI port That said, is this really a big deal to people? Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? I use a docking station with a single USB-C cable to connect my Mac. Everything else connects to the dock. It’s simple, it works, I’ve had this setup for six months with zero issues. Linux computers also work the same way. When I am working mobile, in a coffee shop or similar, I never use the ports. An external mouse would work with Bluetooth, and I’ve never needed to use external devices while on the go. I don’t understand why people need a cocktail of barely used ports at all times. Is there a common workflow that I’m not aware of?

normie3000 5y ago
> Do you really still use… USB-A ports directly on your laptop? Yes.
- SamuelAdams 5y ago
  Ok. Is there any reason you can’t spend 10-20 dollars on USB-C cables to replace your USB-A cables?
  - vaylian 5y ago
    1. Some devices don't have a removable USB-A cable 2. Why throw away something that is perfectly working and useful?
    - sbuk 5y ago
      You dont have to, spend $6.99 on a pack of 4 usb-a to c adapters instead.
  - vanilla_nut 5y ago
    Considering the number of USB-A devices I still own, it would be considerably more than “20-30 dollars”. More like $200, and those are all devices, chargers, and travel/backup chargers I rely on regularly. It’s not so simple to migrate. Consider: - Some devices have a proprietary end and a USB-A end, and there’s no USB-C equivalent (my Pebble chargers; my microphone; my webcam). I have tried dongles with these before and left disappointed every time - some devices have a USB-A cord attached permanently, such as my desk lamp. Again, dongles are unreliable here and thus a downgrade. - For portable devices like my standalone GPS for bike touring, my lights for my bicycle, my phone, my watch, and anything else small I might want to charge when travelling by car… I still need USB-A for the car itself. Easier to pack one cable for the whole trip instead of a USB-C cord for hotels and a USB-A cord for the car. - My personal laptop still has USB-A ports, but no USB-C ports. As far as I can tell there are no non-sketchy adapters that go from a male USB-C cable to a female USB-A port. Apple makes a very expensive Thunderbolt2<->Thunderbolt3 adapter that I use at my desk when I want to use my personal laptop there, but that adapter is $50 or so. Already over your budget. - I don’t have any USB-C wall warts at all. The last phone I bought was the 2016 iPhone SE. I have a plethora of USB-A wall warts from family and friends who didn’t need them. They work well. Why are some people so hellbent on removing functionality that other people use every day and can’t replace without significant expense and inconvenience? It’s just like the damn headphone jack on iPhones: I understand that a lot of people are fine with Bluetooth only, but I am not. It’s frustrating to lose the option.
    - breakfastduck 5y ago
      > Why are some people so hellbent on removing functionality that other people use every day and can’t replace without significant expense and inconvenience? I imagine you were outraged when laptops started replacing serial ports with USB-A, too.
      - cavalierfrix 5y ago
        That's not really a fair comparison. USB has been around a long time and provides a lot of functionality. I love USB-C on my phone and think it's a great upgrade, but I'm not interested in contributing to more e-waste to upgrade a laptop that doesn't need it, just so I can buy more ultimately e-waste adapters with USB-C. For me, the best thing about USB-C on a laptop is universal charging. That's been a game changer.
  - ascagnel_ 5y ago
    A better option would be to use USB-A to USB-C adapters -- a quick check of Amazon says you can buy one for $15USD[0]. This also side-steps the worry about devices with a proprietary "other end" or where the cable is unremovable -- all it's doing is changing the port shape on the host side. [0]: https://smile.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Converts-Technology-Compatible/dp/B01COOQIKU/ https://smile.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Converts-Technology-C...
- vaylian 5y ago
  Absolutely yes. I still have a lot of good external devices that use USB-A.
mistrial9 5y ago
I use real ethernet cable for database things every day, no question; many people are accustomed to an HDMI setup at their desk, with a carry-home laptop, right?
- SamuelAdams 5y ago
  Thought I would clarify, I also use an Ethernet connection. To the dock. Do you basically pop open your laptop with just an Ethernet cable connected and work like that for 8 hours? Sounds terrible to me, neck pain from constantly looking down at your laptop screen would not go well for me. External monitors mounted at eye level is the way to go.
  - eadmund 5y ago
    > Sounds terrible to me, neck pain from constantly looking down at your laptop screen would not go well for me. I have an external monitor and a stand for my laptop. It is pretty awesome.
eadmund 5y ago
> Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? At my workstation, yes: Ethernet is so much faster than WiFi, and I like to use a real keyboard and mouse with a KVM, and the whole setup is USB-A & HDMI. Maybe in the future I will have a USB-C/HDMI/DisplayPort KVM, though. > When I am working mobile, in a coffee shop or similar, I never use the ports. Me neither, but I prefer to do my work in my home office, so my laptop spends most of its time in a stand, hooked up to an external portrait monitor, keyboard and mouse. > An external mouse would work with Bluetooth I would never use wireless with a peripheral. Batteries, security (for a keyboard; far less of a concern with a mouse), pairing. Just say no to RF, and yes to wires.
schwartzworld 5y ago
> That said, is this really a big deal to people? Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? I don't on my mac, because I can't. I don't like having to buy and carry a dongle. I don't like using bluetooth peripherals because they are more expensive and require charging the batteries. I don't like being forced to buy adaptors so all the USB tech I already own can continue to work with the MacBooks that every job insists I must use. > I use a docking station with a single USB-C Fine, but I don't want to carry a docking station when I'm on the go. > An external mouse would work with Bluetooth I already have a $100 trackball mouse and a $100 mechanical keyboard. I don't want to rebuy these items with (more expensive) Bluetooth versions since the wired versions should work for years and years to come. Very wasteful. Besides, batteries expire, and many bluetooth items don't have replaceable batteries. These items will stop working long before their wired counterparts. > I’ve never needed to use external devices while on the go. Makes sense you wouldn't understand the issue then. I use USB devices every day. > I don’t understand why people need a cocktail of barely used ports at all times I use my USB devices every day, and not one of them plugs natively into my computer anymore. USB-A devices are less expensive and more reliable than their BT and USBC counterparts.
- breakfastduck 5y ago
  I mean you could just use a USB-C cable and avoid every annoyance you've claimed.
  - schwartzworld 5y ago
    How do I replace the cable on my trackball? Crack open the case and solder?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > USB-A devices Are fairly rare, unless you are talking laptops/desktops (and other hosts), hubs, and wallwarts. USB Micro-B is the most common on devices that aren't USB-C. Micro-B devices connect to A hosts with an A-to-Micro-B cable, but you can connect them to C hosts with a C-to-Micro-B cable just as easily.
hughrr 5y ago
This. People need to buy a dock and stop whining. Or buy a desktop Mac in the first place and stop whining. Oh I need Ethernet -> buy a dock (or fix your shitty wifi network). Oh I need numerous USB devices -> buy a dock. Oh I don't like BT devices -> buy a dock. Oh I want to use some crusty old USB-A devices -> buy a dock. Oh I want to use my mechanical keyboard and mouse -> why are you using a laptop? ... buy a dock Dell sell a very nice Thunderbolt one that has 3x USB-A's, does PD, has two displayport outputs that work perfectly with the M1 macbooks (and PCs). I've got one. And it has a USB-A headset, mechanical keyboard and mouse connected to it and 2x 27" 4K displays with one single USB-C cable. But screw all that I'd rather use the laptop built in devices (14" M1Pro MBP) and live a simpler life where I don't have a bunch of balls and chains hanging around forever.
- tjansen 5y ago
  ... even better, if you can work with a single monitor, buy a USB-C monitor with built-in dock. They give you USB-A ports and sometimes also Ethernet. Dell has them in every size.
  - ascagnel_ 5y ago
    This is what I ended up doing -- I got a (relatively) inexpensive LG 4K monitor with USB-C, DisplayPort, and 2x HDMI inputs, and the monitor has a built-in headphone jack and a pair of USB-A ports. Plug in one cable, and my laptop or tablet turn into an experience that gets you close-ish to a desktop (the iPad still has real issues when you're trying to run it primarily through an external monitor, mostly that it only occupies a small portion of the screen if the app isn't specifically designed to handle an external display).
    - xtracto 5y ago
      Could you share the LG monitor model?
      - ascagnel_ 5y ago
        LG 27UN850-W It's a 2020 model, and they've updated it since then (the version listed on their website is 27UP850-W), but I don't think the panel itself has changed notably. I'd also recommend turning off the HDR support, especially if you're using it as a computer monitor -- all it seems to do is blow out reds and blues while undercooking greens.
myfavoritedog 5y ago
7steps2much 5y ago
> Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? Absolutely! I do have a dock at my desk of course, but every so often I need to go somewhere and plug into the network there or connect directly to some appliance that sets up a local network on one of its ports for configuration. If I could just leave my laptop plugged into my docking station all the time I would get a tower PC.
brimble 5y ago
> That said, is this really a big deal to people? Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? Every panel in my house supports HDMI (so, great that they added it back). ONE supports USB-C, and only because I bought it to use with a MacBook. Probably 75-80% of USB devices in my house that I might want to plug into my laptop are still USB-A. That might hit 50/50 in another few years.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Probably 75-80% of USB devices in my house that I might want to plug into my laptop are still USB-A. That seems...improbable. I would bet that most of the devices are USB Micro-B. They probably came with USB-A to Micro-B cables, but you can get USB-C to Micro-B cables, too, and since USB-C supports a superset of the modes supported over Micro-B, there is no reduction in function (as there might be connecting a USB-C device with a USB-A to USB-C cable.) Of course, if you did need to connect a USB-A device to your laptop, a USB-A to USB-C cable will do that, and are much easier to find than USB-A to USB-A cables you'd need if it was a USB-A-only laptop.
  - brimble 5y ago
    OK, let me rephrase: - 100% of devices with a hard-wired cable are USB-A - Most of the rest are USB-mini or USB-micro and 100% of the cables that came with them or that I've acquired since have an A connector on the other end. - Nearly all my USB-C devices are for recent game consoles and I wouldn't plug them in to my MacBook except maybe to charge them. > Of course, if you did need to connect a USB-A device to your laptop, a USB-A to USB-C cable will do that, and are much easier to find than USB-A to USB-A cables you'd need if it was a USB-A-only laptop. Oh gee I didn't know adapters existed, thanks.
Klonoar 5y ago
I keep a CalDigit dock on my desk and two small USB-C adapters (thumbprint sized) in my bag for when I travel and need Ethernet or to plug in my GameCube controller, for instance. I don’t understand people who call this “lugging around” - there’s very small setups out there. Haven’t cared about an old school port in years. Just feels like an overblown concern, short of easier monitor hookup - but the newer MacBooks bringing that back makes this somewhat moot, and it should’ve never left to begin with.
Delk 5y ago
> Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? For my personal laptop, my headset, USB flash drives and my external backup hard drives all use USB-A. So does the receiver for my old wireless mouse, although that one's old enough that almost everyone would probably have replaced it with something Bluetooth by now. There are also a bunch of older devices that I'm not using too often but which I haven't really had enough of a need to replace either. Any of these would of course be simple enough to replace individually or to use with an adapter, but it's nicer to not have to bother, so yes, I do use them. It's not so much that most of them are a part of a common workflow for me (except for the mouse, but as I said, that one's pretty old and it's easy to argue it would make sense to replace it with a Bluetooth one anyway). It's more that it feels wasteful to have to replace working peripherals simply due to older connectors, and cumbersome to have to use adapters. If a new laptop didn't come with USB-A ports, I wouldn't revolt, but it'd probably irk me somewhat as it's convenient to have one or two. A dock would also be fine, of course, but they can be a bit on the expensive side for private use.
- digisign 5y ago
  Yep, I have a dock but use the laptop USB-A ports a lot for flash drives. Why? Because my stereo and car stereo only support USB-A. Would rather use sd-card.

normie3000 5y ago

> Do you really still use… USB-A ports directly on your laptop? Yes.

SamuelAdams 5y ago
Ok. Is there any reason you can’t spend 10-20 dollars on USB-C cables to replace your USB-A cables?
- vaylian 5y ago
  1. Some devices don't have a removable USB-A cable 2. Why throw away something that is perfectly working and useful?
  - sbuk 5y ago
    You dont have to, spend $6.99 on a pack of 4 usb-a to c adapters instead.
- vanilla_nut 5y ago
  Considering the number of USB-A devices I still own, it would be considerably more than “20-30 dollars”. More like $200, and those are all devices, chargers, and travel/backup chargers I rely on regularly. It’s not so simple to migrate. Consider: - Some devices have a proprietary end and a USB-A end, and there’s no USB-C equivalent (my Pebble chargers; my microphone; my webcam). I have tried dongles with these before and left disappointed every time - some devices have a USB-A cord attached permanently, such as my desk lamp. Again, dongles are unreliable here and thus a downgrade. - For portable devices like my standalone GPS for bike touring, my lights for my bicycle, my phone, my watch, and anything else small I might want to charge when travelling by car… I still need USB-A for the car itself. Easier to pack one cable for the whole trip instead of a USB-C cord for hotels and a USB-A cord for the car. - My personal laptop still has USB-A ports, but no USB-C ports. As far as I can tell there are no non-sketchy adapters that go from a male USB-C cable to a female USB-A port. Apple makes a very expensive Thunderbolt2<->Thunderbolt3 adapter that I use at my desk when I want to use my personal laptop there, but that adapter is $50 or so. Already over your budget. - I don’t have any USB-C wall warts at all. The last phone I bought was the 2016 iPhone SE. I have a plethora of USB-A wall warts from family and friends who didn’t need them. They work well. Why are some people so hellbent on removing functionality that other people use every day and can’t replace without significant expense and inconvenience? It’s just like the damn headphone jack on iPhones: I understand that a lot of people are fine with Bluetooth only, but I am not. It’s frustrating to lose the option.
  - breakfastduck 5y ago
    > Why are some people so hellbent on removing functionality that other people use every day and can’t replace without significant expense and inconvenience? I imagine you were outraged when laptops started replacing serial ports with USB-A, too.
    - cavalierfrix 5y ago
      That's not really a fair comparison. USB has been around a long time and provides a lot of functionality. I love USB-C on my phone and think it's a great upgrade, but I'm not interested in contributing to more e-waste to upgrade a laptop that doesn't need it, just so I can buy more ultimately e-waste adapters with USB-C. For me, the best thing about USB-C on a laptop is universal charging. That's been a game changer.
- ascagnel_ 5y ago
  A better option would be to use USB-A to USB-C adapters -- a quick check of Amazon says you can buy one for $15USD[0]. This also side-steps the worry about devices with a proprietary "other end" or where the cable is unremovable -- all it's doing is changing the port shape on the host side. [0]: https://smile.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Converts-Technology-Compatible/dp/B01COOQIKU/ https://smile.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Converts-Technology-C...
vaylian 5y ago
Absolutely yes. I still have a lot of good external devices that use USB-A.

mistrial9 5y ago

I use real ethernet cable for database things every day, no question; many people are accustomed to an HDMI setup at their desk, with a carry-home laptop, right?

SamuelAdams 5y ago
Thought I would clarify, I also use an Ethernet connection. To the dock. Do you basically pop open your laptop with just an Ethernet cable connected and work like that for 8 hours? Sounds terrible to me, neck pain from constantly looking down at your laptop screen would not go well for me. External monitors mounted at eye level is the way to go.
- eadmund 5y ago
  > Sounds terrible to me, neck pain from constantly looking down at your laptop screen would not go well for me. I have an external monitor and a stand for my laptop. It is pretty awesome.

eadmund 5y ago

> Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? At my workstation, yes: Ethernet is so much faster than WiFi, and I like to use a real keyboard and mouse with a KVM, and the whole setup is USB-A & HDMI. Maybe in the future I will have a USB-C/HDMI/DisplayPort KVM, though. > When I am working mobile, in a coffee shop or similar, I never use the ports. Me neither, but I prefer to do my work in my home office, so my laptop spends most of its time in a stand, hooked up to an external portrait monitor, keyboard and mouse. > An external mouse would work with Bluetooth I would never use wireless with a peripheral. Batteries, security (for a keyboard; far less of a concern with a mouse), pairing. Just say no to RF, and yes to wires.

schwartzworld 5y ago

> That said, is this really a big deal to people? Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? I don't on my mac, because I can't. I don't like having to buy and carry a dongle. I don't like using bluetooth peripherals because they are more expensive and require charging the batteries. I don't like being forced to buy adaptors so all the USB tech I already own can continue to work with the MacBooks that every job insists I must use. > I use a docking station with a single USB-C Fine, but I don't want to carry a docking station when I'm on the go. > An external mouse would work with Bluetooth I already have a $100 trackball mouse and a $100 mechanical keyboard. I don't want to rebuy these items with (more expensive) Bluetooth versions since the wired versions should work for years and years to come. Very wasteful. Besides, batteries expire, and many bluetooth items don't have replaceable batteries. These items will stop working long before their wired counterparts. > I’ve never needed to use external devices while on the go. Makes sense you wouldn't understand the issue then. I use USB devices every day. > I don’t understand why people need a cocktail of barely used ports at all times I use my USB devices every day, and not one of them plugs natively into my computer anymore. USB-A devices are less expensive and more reliable than their BT and USBC counterparts.

breakfastduck 5y ago
I mean you could just use a USB-C cable and avoid every annoyance you've claimed.
- schwartzworld 5y ago
  How do I replace the cable on my trackball? Crack open the case and solder?
dragonwriter 5y ago
> USB-A devices Are fairly rare, unless you are talking laptops/desktops (and other hosts), hubs, and wallwarts. USB Micro-B is the most common on devices that aren't USB-C. Micro-B devices connect to A hosts with an A-to-Micro-B cable, but you can connect them to C hosts with a C-to-Micro-B cable just as easily.

hughrr 5y ago

This. People need to buy a dock and stop whining. Or buy a desktop Mac in the first place and stop whining. Oh I need Ethernet -> buy a dock (or fix your shitty wifi network). Oh I need numerous USB devices -> buy a dock. Oh I don't like BT devices -> buy a dock. Oh I want to use some crusty old USB-A devices -> buy a dock. Oh I want to use my mechanical keyboard and mouse -> why are you using a laptop? ... buy a dock Dell sell a very nice Thunderbolt one that has 3x USB-A's, does PD, has two displayport outputs that work perfectly with the M1 macbooks (and PCs). I've got one. And it has a USB-A headset, mechanical keyboard and mouse connected to it and 2x 27" 4K displays with one single USB-C cable. But screw all that I'd rather use the laptop built in devices (14" M1Pro MBP) and live a simpler life where I don't have a bunch of balls and chains hanging around forever.

tjansen 5y ago
... even better, if you can work with a single monitor, buy a USB-C monitor with built-in dock. They give you USB-A ports and sometimes also Ethernet. Dell has them in every size.
- ascagnel_ 5y ago
  This is what I ended up doing -- I got a (relatively) inexpensive LG 4K monitor with USB-C, DisplayPort, and 2x HDMI inputs, and the monitor has a built-in headphone jack and a pair of USB-A ports. Plug in one cable, and my laptop or tablet turn into an experience that gets you close-ish to a desktop (the iPad still has real issues when you're trying to run it primarily through an external monitor, mostly that it only occupies a small portion of the screen if the app isn't specifically designed to handle an external display).
  - xtracto 5y ago
    Could you share the LG monitor model?
    - ascagnel_ 5y ago
      LG 27UN850-W It's a 2020 model, and they've updated it since then (the version listed on their website is 27UP850-W), but I don't think the panel itself has changed notably. I'd also recommend turning off the HDR support, especially if you're using it as a computer monitor -- all it seems to do is blow out reds and blues while undercooking greens.

myfavoritedog 5y ago

7steps2much 5y ago

> Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? Absolutely! I do have a dock at my desk of course, but every so often I need to go somewhere and plug into the network there or connect directly to some appliance that sets up a local network on one of its ports for configuration. If I could just leave my laptop plugged into my docking station all the time I would get a tower PC.

brimble 5y ago

> That said, is this really a big deal to people? Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? Every panel in my house supports HDMI (so, great that they added it back). ONE supports USB-C, and only because I bought it to use with a MacBook. Probably 75-80% of USB devices in my house that I might want to plug into my laptop are still USB-A. That might hit 50/50 in another few years.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Probably 75-80% of USB devices in my house that I might want to plug into my laptop are still USB-A. That seems...improbable. I would bet that most of the devices are USB Micro-B. They probably came with USB-A to Micro-B cables, but you can get USB-C to Micro-B cables, too, and since USB-C supports a superset of the modes supported over Micro-B, there is no reduction in function (as there might be connecting a USB-C device with a USB-A to USB-C cable.) Of course, if you did need to connect a USB-A device to your laptop, a USB-A to USB-C cable will do that, and are much easier to find than USB-A to USB-A cables you'd need if it was a USB-A-only laptop.
- brimble 5y ago
  OK, let me rephrase: - 100% of devices with a hard-wired cable are USB-A - Most of the rest are USB-mini or USB-micro and 100% of the cables that came with them or that I've acquired since have an A connector on the other end. - Nearly all my USB-C devices are for recent game consoles and I wouldn't plug them in to my MacBook except maybe to charge them. > Of course, if you did need to connect a USB-A device to your laptop, a USB-A to USB-C cable will do that, and are much easier to find than USB-A to USB-A cables you'd need if it was a USB-A-only laptop. Oh gee I didn't know adapters existed, thanks.

Klonoar 5y ago

I keep a CalDigit dock on my desk and two small USB-C adapters (thumbprint sized) in my bag for when I travel and need Ethernet or to plug in my GameCube controller, for instance. I don’t understand people who call this “lugging around” - there’s very small setups out there. Haven’t cared about an old school port in years. Just feels like an overblown concern, short of easier monitor hookup - but the newer MacBooks bringing that back makes this somewhat moot, and it should’ve never left to begin with.

Delk 5y ago

> Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop? For my personal laptop, my headset, USB flash drives and my external backup hard drives all use USB-A. So does the receiver for my old wireless mouse, although that one's old enough that almost everyone would probably have replaced it with something Bluetooth by now. There are also a bunch of older devices that I'm not using too often but which I haven't really had enough of a need to replace either. Any of these would of course be simple enough to replace individually or to use with an adapter, but it's nicer to not have to bother, so yes, I do use them. It's not so much that most of them are a part of a common workflow for me (except for the mouse, but as I said, that one's pretty old and it's easy to argue it would make sense to replace it with a Bluetooth one anyway). It's more that it feels wasteful to have to replace working peripherals simply due to older connectors, and cumbersome to have to use adapters. If a new laptop didn't come with USB-A ports, I wouldn't revolt, but it'd probably irk me somewhat as it's convenient to have one or two. A dock would also be fine, of course, but they can be a bit on the expensive side for private use.

digisign 5y ago
Yep, I have a dock but use the laptop USB-A ports a lot for flash drives. Why? Because my stereo and car stereo only support USB-A. Would rather use sd-card.