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No, with proper marketing one would not make the same mistake. Instead, one would conclude that the product was a no-go and adjust their strategy to fit (in th

No, with proper marketing one would not make the same mistake. Instead, one would conclude that the product was a no-go and adjust their strategy to fit (in this case, putting the idea on the shelf). Consider marketing the social component of design. In the whole "Make Something People Want" bit, marketing identifies the "something people want" part. "Make" is important, but it doesn't mean jack if you're making the wrong thing. It sounds as though this guy might have had a good market for condom cases ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=condom+cases http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=condom+cases ), particularly in the 80s when the things were just coming out from behind the pharmacist's counter, but he didn't pursue that initially and his second attempt appears to have been an approximation of what people actually wanted to buy. If he instead identified what people wanted (reliable condom cases) and delivered that instead of a novelty which sold well to Bangkok tourists, he may have had a business.

maxklein 18y ago
You're over simplifying things. It's often not easy to determine what people want, because often people cannot say. For example, an iPod. For example now, you have gotten stuck on this idea of condom cases. I personally don't want anything near to that. BUT, if the design were really interesting, I may want it. So you can't research if I want that, because even if you asked me, the answer I would give would be ambiguous. Business School people come out with this idea that you can find out what people want before you have a product on that market. You can't! What you can do is identify a PAIN and fix it. You can identify something to be OPTIMIZED and fix that. If your product does not clearly fit any of those two categories, then all you can do is GUESS that people want it, then throw it at the market and move with the market to take the product in the correct direction. It's easy for you to say condom cases are wanted after reading the article, but a condom keychain or case does not solve any specific pain. It's somewhat convenient thing, but I can easily live without it. It can work in the market, but it may not work. The correct approach to this type business is to guess the best possible product that could sell in the market. Then put it in the market, and the market will tell you what it really wants. Then you modify to fit the market. But you have to factor this process into your finances, and you have to factor the risk factor in. The more unclear your market is, the greater your risk factor, and your finances have to be large enough to accomodate this risk. This was not true for the guys case above. You are running with the wrong attitude if you think you can get things right all the time on one shot if you do proper research. It can happen, but most businesses will refocus after being on the market, and there are many many business who did the research, but didn't get it right. They failed and you never hear about them.
- tom_rath 18y ago
  It's not over-simplified -- marketing is hard. That's why superb marketing staff are worth their weight in gold. Those people who can determine what people want don't just snap their fingers and pop out an idea. An iterative process is followed to produce that initial product. With your iPod example, a music player which is small, elegant and easy to use [so drop all the extra features the competitors have which nobody uses -- and which features are those?] took a great deal of research to spec out. I see what you're saying and agree that product development is an iterative process, but without marketing you're depending upon luck getting you to that final result; and you'll run out of cash long before you reach that point. I couldn't be bothered to buy a condom case either. I also couldn't be arsed to use Twitter but I'm not the target market for either of those products, so both companies would only waste resources if they attempted to match my needs.
  - maxklein 18y ago
    One has to apply the theory into the reality of the situation. You're right on how it should be, but consider the situation of the guy: it was a single guy with a single product and about $15.000 in cash. He is constrained by many factors and it is my belief that the route he went was in general reasonable. He just executed poorly.
- netcan 18y ago
  To give a famous example: Before the walkman, some market research was being done. The idea was that those guys carrying around stereos on their shoulders might want a lighter alternative that clips onto a belt. They said 'no'

maxklein 18y ago

You're over simplifying things. It's often not easy to determine what people want, because often people cannot say. For example, an iPod. For example now, you have gotten stuck on this idea of condom cases. I personally don't want anything near to that. BUT, if the design were really interesting, I may want it. So you can't research if I want that, because even if you asked me, the answer I would give would be ambiguous. Business School people come out with this idea that you can find out what people want before you have a product on that market. You can't! What you can do is identify a PAIN and fix it. You can identify something to be OPTIMIZED and fix that. If your product does not clearly fit any of those two categories, then all you can do is GUESS that people want it, then throw it at the market and move with the market to take the product in the correct direction. It's easy for you to say condom cases are wanted after reading the article, but a condom keychain or case does not solve any specific pain. It's somewhat convenient thing, but I can easily live without it. It can work in the market, but it may not work. The correct approach to this type business is to guess the best possible product that could sell in the market. Then put it in the market, and the market will tell you what it really wants. Then you modify to fit the market. But you have to factor this process into your finances, and you have to factor the risk factor in. The more unclear your market is, the greater your risk factor, and your finances have to be large enough to accomodate this risk. This was not true for the guys case above. You are running with the wrong attitude if you think you can get things right all the time on one shot if you do proper research. It can happen, but most businesses will refocus after being on the market, and there are many many business who did the research, but didn't get it right. They failed and you never hear about them.

tom_rath 18y ago
It's not over-simplified -- marketing is hard. That's why superb marketing staff are worth their weight in gold. Those people who can determine what people want don't just snap their fingers and pop out an idea. An iterative process is followed to produce that initial product. With your iPod example, a music player which is small, elegant and easy to use [so drop all the extra features the competitors have which nobody uses -- and which features are those?] took a great deal of research to spec out. I see what you're saying and agree that product development is an iterative process, but without marketing you're depending upon luck getting you to that final result; and you'll run out of cash long before you reach that point. I couldn't be bothered to buy a condom case either. I also couldn't be arsed to use Twitter but I'm not the target market for either of those products, so both companies would only waste resources if they attempted to match my needs.
- maxklein 18y ago
  One has to apply the theory into the reality of the situation. You're right on how it should be, but consider the situation of the guy: it was a single guy with a single product and about $15.000 in cash. He is constrained by many factors and it is my belief that the route he went was in general reasonable. He just executed poorly.
netcan 18y ago
To give a famous example: Before the walkman, some market research was being done. The idea was that those guys carrying around stereos on their shoulders might want a lighter alternative that clips onto a belt. They said 'no'