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Kubernetes is hardly ‘container tech’, but a cluster management and scheduling tool for large volumes of containers or VMs. FreeBSD has its own “container”-like

Kubernetes is hardly ‘container tech’, but a cluster management and scheduling tool for large volumes of containers or VMs. FreeBSD has its own “container”-like feature called Jails, which was written by phk long before Docker / lxc / namespaces were a thing. For the ease of Docker’s CLI and config, use iocage; for cluster management like k8s, look at Nomad. It might not be as flashy and enterprisey as the Linux equivalent, but FreeBSD can easily compete with Linux in containers. Btw, combined with ZFS, Jails are just beautiful. iocage integrates directly with ZFS and creates snapshots before upgrades, data sets per container, shared data sets for base system etc. It’s really really nice.

johntdaly 5y ago
That is interesting. I would like to hear more about jails and how they compare to containers on linux. This is the first time I’ve heard about nomad and I would like to here more. That the whole thing integrates with ZFS is news to me too. It is sort of sad but BSD is bad at publishing news and tutorials. I wish there was something like lwn and the slew of endless tutorials to keep me up to date with what is going on in the BSD world. There is so little information or it is so hard to find for somebody in the Mac and Linux world that it might as well not exist at all. And the thing is, if you “dev” on Mac or Linux and “deploy” on Linux, like a lot of us, you are a *NIX head and are interested in hearing what is new in the BSDs.
- lmohseni 5y ago
  The FreeBSD youtube channel is great for long-form intros and talks, if you are curious: https://www.youtube.com/c/FreeBSDProject https://www.youtube.com/c/FreeBSDProject
- Koshkin 5y ago
  https://www.freebsdnews.com/ https://www.freebsdnews.com/
  - riedel 5y ago
    Seems dead since beginning of last year. Any idea what happened.
- runjake 5y ago
  > It is sort of sad but BSD is bad at publishing news and tutorials. Say what? https://www.freebsdnews.com/ https://www.freebsdnews.com/ http://undeadly.org/ http://undeadly.org/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/ https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os https://nostarch.com/catalog/linux-bsd-unix https://nostarch.com/catalog/linux-bsd-unix https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/
  - johntdaly 5y ago
    Yea, I know of undeadly and read it off and on, freebsdnews too. I stoped reading undeadly a while ago when they had a rather long lull in publishing. From a post further down I take it freebsdnews has the same problem. I fallow DragonflyBSD off and on, since it is the BSD that interests me the most and they to suck at publishing info. I get more info out of a release note about whats changed than by fallowing DragonflyBSD Digest or reading the mailing list archives. And publishing some books about the BSDs doesn’t really count as “tutorials”. I don’t think you are getting my point. The comment I respondet to wasn’t just interesting, it gave me a reason to care about FreeBSD and maybe a reason to read freebsdnews and give FreeBSD a try. You need a place where people from outside of your communities can go to get informed enough to actually care enough to install a specific BSD and start reading their news digest.
jgillich 5y ago
The number one feature of Kubernetes is that you can extend it, there are almost no limits to what you can do in Kubernetes, it's a platform for platforms. Nomad doesn't compare. Your enthusiasm about ZFS is roughly how I feel about Kubernetes, and why "traditional" approaches seem pretty backwards to me now. ;)
TheCondor 5y ago
I think you are downplaying kubernetes. Nomad is very cool, as are most hashicorp creations, but it’s not in the same class. It’s a single vendor solution, has a lot less mileage on it, doesn’t have the same flexibility. It may very well solve your problem but I don’t know that it will work for as many as k8s does. Really, someone should start to enable k8s with BSD technologies
- hestefisk 5y ago
  Realistically, how many people / companies, in reality, need k8s? It’s a very complex solution geared at managing huge clusters. Sure, if you are Google or Netflix it makes sense. But for smaller deployments, I can’t see why less complex solutions cannot work. K8s is a great tool, but it’s very complex and has reinvented a lot of things, which traditional tools can do just as well.
  - folkrav 5y ago
    DevOps people with K8s knowledge are much easier to find, and many companies don't want to reinvent the wheel. Honestly, K8s is as complex as you need it to be. For smaller deployments it's working just fine too.
  - freedomben 5y ago
    I used to say the same thing, but now that there is so much K8s knowledge out there, I think it's the wrong question to ask. You probably don't need kubernetes, but if you already have a k8s cluster and someone who has done it,, with 10 to 20 minutes of work you can deploy your app/service in a highly available. Even if you don't have a k8s cluster yet, these days you can provision one easily without advanced levels of knowledge. Even just zero-down time deploys make k8s a good choice for a small shop. You basically get it for free with K8s.
jlcoff 5y ago

johntdaly 5y ago

That is interesting. I would like to hear more about jails and how they compare to containers on linux. This is the first time I’ve heard about nomad and I would like to here more. That the whole thing integrates with ZFS is news to me too. It is sort of sad but BSD is bad at publishing news and tutorials. I wish there was something like lwn and the slew of endless tutorials to keep me up to date with what is going on in the BSD world. There is so little information or it is so hard to find for somebody in the Mac and Linux world that it might as well not exist at all. And the thing is, if you “dev” on Mac or Linux and “deploy” on Linux, like a lot of us, you are a *NIX head and are interested in hearing what is new in the BSDs.

lmohseni 5y ago
The FreeBSD youtube channel is great for long-form intros and talks, if you are curious: https://www.youtube.com/c/FreeBSDProject https://www.youtube.com/c/FreeBSDProject
Koshkin 5y ago
https://www.freebsdnews.com/ https://www.freebsdnews.com/
- riedel 5y ago
  Seems dead since beginning of last year. Any idea what happened.
runjake 5y ago
> It is sort of sad but BSD is bad at publishing news and tutorials. Say what? https://www.freebsdnews.com/ https://www.freebsdnews.com/ http://undeadly.org/ http://undeadly.org/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/ https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os https://nostarch.com/catalog/linux-bsd-unix https://nostarch.com/catalog/linux-bsd-unix https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/
- johntdaly 5y ago
  Yea, I know of undeadly and read it off and on, freebsdnews too. I stoped reading undeadly a while ago when they had a rather long lull in publishing. From a post further down I take it freebsdnews has the same problem. I fallow DragonflyBSD off and on, since it is the BSD that interests me the most and they to suck at publishing info. I get more info out of a release note about whats changed than by fallowing DragonflyBSD Digest or reading the mailing list archives. And publishing some books about the BSDs doesn’t really count as “tutorials”. I don’t think you are getting my point. The comment I respondet to wasn’t just interesting, it gave me a reason to care about FreeBSD and maybe a reason to read freebsdnews and give FreeBSD a try. You need a place where people from outside of your communities can go to get informed enough to actually care enough to install a specific BSD and start reading their news digest.

jgillich 5y ago

The number one feature of Kubernetes is that you can extend it, there are almost no limits to what you can do in Kubernetes, it's a platform for platforms. Nomad doesn't compare. Your enthusiasm about ZFS is roughly how I feel about Kubernetes, and why "traditional" approaches seem pretty backwards to me now. ;)

TheCondor 5y ago

I think you are downplaying kubernetes. Nomad is very cool, as are most hashicorp creations, but it’s not in the same class. It’s a single vendor solution, has a lot less mileage on it, doesn’t have the same flexibility. It may very well solve your problem but I don’t know that it will work for as many as k8s does. Really, someone should start to enable k8s with BSD technologies

hestefisk 5y ago
Realistically, how many people / companies, in reality, need k8s? It’s a very complex solution geared at managing huge clusters. Sure, if you are Google or Netflix it makes sense. But for smaller deployments, I can’t see why less complex solutions cannot work. K8s is a great tool, but it’s very complex and has reinvented a lot of things, which traditional tools can do just as well.
- folkrav 5y ago
  DevOps people with K8s knowledge are much easier to find, and many companies don't want to reinvent the wheel. Honestly, K8s is as complex as you need it to be. For smaller deployments it's working just fine too.
- freedomben 5y ago
  I used to say the same thing, but now that there is so much K8s knowledge out there, I think it's the wrong question to ask. You probably don't need kubernetes, but if you already have a k8s cluster and someone who has done it,, with 10 to 20 minutes of work you can deploy your app/service in a highly available. Even if you don't have a k8s cluster yet, these days you can provision one easily without advanced levels of knowledge. Even just zero-down time deploys make k8s a good choice for a small shop. You basically get it for free with K8s.

jlcoff 5y ago