6 ms·

I've read this several times before, and every time I do it hurts just as much. Every time I read of another person who built something useful, so much so that

I've read this several times before, and every time I do it hurts just as much. Every time I read of another person who built something useful, so much so that it gets recognised by big-corp X, and being called in by Google or Microsoft, promised the recognition (and pay) they deserve, then having the rug pulled at light-speed from under them, I take it personally. I'm amazed, every time I read "The Day AppGet Died" at the restraint shown, which makes it hurt that little bit more. Keivan should probably be a (multi) millionaire now, sitting comfortably with his family doing whatever it is they enjoy doing. Instead, someone at Microsoft used this as a way to get themselves a promotion. Don't be fooled by the lipstick, Microsoft has never stopped being EEEvil.

fraktl 5y ago
luciusdomitius 5y ago
Well. Cold reality is that even 5-year old kids know what sort of company MSFT is and what sort of people work for them. He acted like an useful fool, got treated like one. I even smirked a bit at his misery, even though I am normally not that kind of person. Had he instead reacted to the phone call with some extremely aggressive licensing, maybe even a software patent, now he would be discussing the terms of the out of court settlement and choosing a color for individual seats in his new 7-series.
- Shared404 5y ago
  > Cold reality is that even 5-year old kids know what sort of company MSFT is and what sort of people work for them. Mate, 80% of college students don't know that. Source: Work at a computer repair shop and see shocked faces.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Then again most five-year-olds seem smarter than most college students.
    - Shared404 5y ago
      I dunno. They're both larval stages, just different ones. As far as knowing about the workings of a company, I'd definitely bet on the college student. The observation in my other comment applies to general adults as well. Ok I'll stop taking the joke too seriously now :P .
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        College students have spent much longer being indoctrinated that corporations are good, and the bigger the better, than have five-year-olds. In that sense the joke actually was -- at least to some small part -- serious.
- jmcgough 5y ago
  How is he going to take out a patent for or aggressively license OSS? The code is already out for anyone to use at that point.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Yes, that's an important takeaway, but > I even smirked a bit at his misery smirking at someone for getting rolled is low.
  - bacchusracine 5y ago
    >smirking at someone for getting rolled is low. Is it still low when it is self-inflicted? That old fable with the finisher at the end about 'you knew me for what I was when you picked me up' comes to mind. This ending was clear from the beginning. Microsoft is the same company who licensed Mosaic from Spyglass with the promise of a quarterly fee plus royalties and then released their version of the browser as Internet Explorer for free resulting in no royalties. Never mind the history of companies who got in bed with Microsoft and never quite recovered afterwards. Or the history of blatant ripoffs. DoubleSpace anyone? Anyone choosing to get in bed with Microsoft at this point gets what they deserve. There was a reason why they were literally paying companies to write apps for Windows Phone.
smoldesu 5y ago
Kinda reminds me of the whole Flicktype debacle. Pretty much every company of a certain size has their fair share of bad management and traitorous corporate ladder-climbers. We, the users, are powerless to stop this.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  What? You have all the power. You send an email and then stop buying their services. 'To whom it concerns, you guys are shitty so I'm cancelling services.'
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Sure, just delete your iCloud account, Microsoft account, Amazon account, Netflix account and Google account. It's so easy that anyone could do it!
    - fartcannon 5y ago
      It really is that easy.
    - tut-urut-utut 5y ago
      iCloud - you don't really need an alternative. Microsoft - You have many alternatives to Microsoft software. Linux, Libre Office, Java, Python, IntelliJ, ... pick one, or more. Amazon - there are so many other stores. And cloud providers if you are into that. Netflix - just another streaming service. You can decide how to consume media in many different ways. Google - Mail you can host anywhere, it's not like Gmail is special. Online productivity suites are not that rare as once. If you insist on Youtube you can use it without an account, Android with fake account. If you find yourself you can't switch, you are into much bigger trouble. It's ok to be burned once, but next time you start you new SaaS startup, think twice do you want to depend on specific company for all your needs.
    - luciusdomitius 5y ago
      Out of those I only have Google, even though I use it only for spam e-mails these days, having opted for Protonmail for the real stuff. The only reason I still have a Google Account is that my Pinephone Pro hasn't arrived yet. Once I get it and figure out it fills my most critical needs, the Google account gets shredded too. Giving up on Netflix and Spotify was much less difficult than expected.
electroly 5y ago
> Keivan should probably be a (multi) millionaire now, sitting comfortably with his family doing whatever it is they enjoy doing. Instead, someone at Microsoft used this as a way to get themselves a promotion. To be fair, AppGet was never really that popular, and Microsoft's replacement is even less so. I'd be surprised if anyone got a promotion based on their WinGet work. There has been no significant adoption of WinGet in the market. They're lucky Microsoft doesn't dissolve the team. We use Chocolatey instead, which I think is more popular (but still not very popular). I have no horse in the race, nor do I know anything special about this situation, but it's fairly clear to me that the author failed the interview. I don't know if he understands that and is trying to downplay it, or if he doesn't realize that's what happened. That's why everything dried up after the interview, and why the followup says the position "didn't work out."
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  They also don't really promote it as far as I can tell. I didn't find out about it until I was looking up some stuff about choco. It's terrible what they did to this guy. I know he shared his stuff as open source but still to string him along for over a year whilst also having a team working on what he had built and barely acknowledging it or helping him out in some way.
- easton 5y ago
  winget is protected as it's providing the API for the Microsoft Store to manage Win32 apps. I think there's been a decent amount of adoption, there's lots of install pages (Git is one I noticed recently) that have winget install right next to brew install.
  - electroly 5y ago
    That's an interesting bit about the Microsoft Store; I didn't know that. Thanks!
- arepublicadoceu 5y ago
  > I'd be surprised if anyone got a promotion based on their WinGet work. There has been no significant adoption of WinGet in the market. Because it's an terrible implementation of a package management. Don't get me wrong, it's better than nothing but still... For instance: - we can't pin packages (there's an open issue for God knows how long) Problem with that is that if you do "winget upgrade --all" it will upgrade all your programs even those that you don't want to upgrade. The alternative is simply upgrading one by one. - Some programs have a problem with their version (GOG Galaxy for instance). Winget simply doesn’t know that there’s no newer version available and keep trying to upgrade everytime you do “winget upgrade –all”. This, in turn, make the previous point more annoying as I can’t say to winget ignore “GOG Galaxy” and upgrade all the other packages. - Some programs are downloaded from websites that are probably heavily throttling downloads from winget, this make downloading qbittorrent (20mb) takes a LONG time and usually failing. I have no idea of how to fix these issues as I'm just a user but there's a stark difference between using windows winget and apt or pacman.
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- deleted 5y ago
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fraktl 5y ago

luciusdomitius 5y ago

Well. Cold reality is that even 5-year old kids know what sort of company MSFT is and what sort of people work for them. He acted like an useful fool, got treated like one. I even smirked a bit at his misery, even though I am normally not that kind of person. Had he instead reacted to the phone call with some extremely aggressive licensing, maybe even a software patent, now he would be discussing the terms of the out of court settlement and choosing a color for individual seats in his new 7-series.

Shared404 5y ago
> Cold reality is that even 5-year old kids know what sort of company MSFT is and what sort of people work for them. Mate, 80% of college students don't know that. Source: Work at a computer repair shop and see shocked faces.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Then again most five-year-olds seem smarter than most college students.
  - Shared404 5y ago
    I dunno. They're both larval stages, just different ones. As far as knowing about the workings of a company, I'd definitely bet on the college student. The observation in my other comment applies to general adults as well. Ok I'll stop taking the joke too seriously now :P .
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      College students have spent much longer being indoctrinated that corporations are good, and the bigger the better, than have five-year-olds. In that sense the joke actually was -- at least to some small part -- serious.
jmcgough 5y ago
How is he going to take out a patent for or aggressively license OSS? The code is already out for anyone to use at that point.
jjoonathan 5y ago
Yes, that's an important takeaway, but > I even smirked a bit at his misery smirking at someone for getting rolled is low.
- bacchusracine 5y ago
  >smirking at someone for getting rolled is low. Is it still low when it is self-inflicted? That old fable with the finisher at the end about 'you knew me for what I was when you picked me up' comes to mind. This ending was clear from the beginning. Microsoft is the same company who licensed Mosaic from Spyglass with the promise of a quarterly fee plus royalties and then released their version of the browser as Internet Explorer for free resulting in no royalties. Never mind the history of companies who got in bed with Microsoft and never quite recovered afterwards. Or the history of blatant ripoffs. DoubleSpace anyone? Anyone choosing to get in bed with Microsoft at this point gets what they deserve. There was a reason why they were literally paying companies to write apps for Windows Phone.

smoldesu 5y ago

Kinda reminds me of the whole Flicktype debacle. Pretty much every company of a certain size has their fair share of bad management and traitorous corporate ladder-climbers. We, the users, are powerless to stop this.

fartcannon 5y ago
What? You have all the power. You send an email and then stop buying their services. 'To whom it concerns, you guys are shitty so I'm cancelling services.'
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Sure, just delete your iCloud account, Microsoft account, Amazon account, Netflix account and Google account. It's so easy that anyone could do it!
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    It really is that easy.
  - tut-urut-utut 5y ago
    iCloud - you don't really need an alternative. Microsoft - You have many alternatives to Microsoft software. Linux, Libre Office, Java, Python, IntelliJ, ... pick one, or more. Amazon - there are so many other stores. And cloud providers if you are into that. Netflix - just another streaming service. You can decide how to consume media in many different ways. Google - Mail you can host anywhere, it's not like Gmail is special. Online productivity suites are not that rare as once. If you insist on Youtube you can use it without an account, Android with fake account. If you find yourself you can't switch, you are into much bigger trouble. It's ok to be burned once, but next time you start you new SaaS startup, think twice do you want to depend on specific company for all your needs.
  - luciusdomitius 5y ago
    Out of those I only have Google, even though I use it only for spam e-mails these days, having opted for Protonmail for the real stuff. The only reason I still have a Google Account is that my Pinephone Pro hasn't arrived yet. Once I get it and figure out it fills my most critical needs, the Google account gets shredded too. Giving up on Netflix and Spotify was much less difficult than expected.

electroly 5y ago

> Keivan should probably be a (multi) millionaire now, sitting comfortably with his family doing whatever it is they enjoy doing. Instead, someone at Microsoft used this as a way to get themselves a promotion. To be fair, AppGet was never really that popular, and Microsoft's replacement is even less so. I'd be surprised if anyone got a promotion based on their WinGet work. There has been no significant adoption of WinGet in the market. They're lucky Microsoft doesn't dissolve the team. We use Chocolatey instead, which I think is more popular (but still not very popular). I have no horse in the race, nor do I know anything special about this situation, but it's fairly clear to me that the author failed the interview. I don't know if he understands that and is trying to downplay it, or if he doesn't realize that's what happened. That's why everything dried up after the interview, and why the followup says the position "didn't work out."

stjohnswarts 5y ago
They also don't really promote it as far as I can tell. I didn't find out about it until I was looking up some stuff about choco. It's terrible what they did to this guy. I know he shared his stuff as open source but still to string him along for over a year whilst also having a team working on what he had built and barely acknowledging it or helping him out in some way.
easton 5y ago
winget is protected as it's providing the API for the Microsoft Store to manage Win32 apps. I think there's been a decent amount of adoption, there's lots of install pages (Git is one I noticed recently) that have winget install right next to brew install.
- electroly 5y ago
  That's an interesting bit about the Microsoft Store; I didn't know that. Thanks!
arepublicadoceu 5y ago
> I'd be surprised if anyone got a promotion based on their WinGet work. There has been no significant adoption of WinGet in the market. Because it's an terrible implementation of a package management. Don't get me wrong, it's better than nothing but still... For instance: - we can't pin packages (there's an open issue for God knows how long) Problem with that is that if you do "winget upgrade --all" it will upgrade all your programs even those that you don't want to upgrade. The alternative is simply upgrading one by one. - Some programs have a problem with their version (GOG Galaxy for instance). Winget simply doesn’t know that there’s no newer version available and keep trying to upgrade everytime you do “winget upgrade –all”. This, in turn, make the previous point more annoying as I can’t say to winget ignore “GOG Galaxy” and upgrade all the other packages. - Some programs are downloaded from websites that are probably heavily throttling downloads from winget, this make downloading qbittorrent (20mb) takes a LONG time and usually failing. I have no idea of how to fix these issues as I'm just a user but there's a stark difference between using windows winget and apt or pacman.

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deleted 5y ago
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