3 ms·

You make some interesting points and I will probably have to check out that book at some point. I will skip the computer/phone stuff, I don't really think we h

• hosh 15y ago
  "To me it seems they could actually be the most connected to older generations simply because they are sharing a social space (facebook) with them." You make an excellant point here. I have not seen examples in the wild of the kind of "deep wisdom" being shared across the Internet by private family groups, but that doesn't mean it does not exist. However, I know certain wisdom cannot pass on through the internet, can only pass on by face-to-face. They are typically transmitted through body language, physical motion, and sheer charismatic presence. "Each generation has to go through its own unique rite of passage given cultural, technological and social standards of the time. I think they'll figure it out and make it work, somehow that always seems to happen." This has been true only within the past several generation, and only due to Moore's Law. In other words, this uniqueness for each generation is an aberration. Tribal wisdom used to be told through folklore, myths and initiations. These days, in the mainstream and in geek subculture, we use the word "myth" to mean "superstitious", and "something to dismiss" in contrast to "facts." The surviving stories appear in the better science fiction and fantasy novels and pop-culture TV shows. Comics. Anime. Some movies. A tiny handful of video games. Often tainted by consumer lifestyle values. An example of what I mean, that's meta enough to discuss this within the story: Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age It comes back to what I wrote in that Quora answer. Today, peers, not elders, conduct modern rites of passages. Elders today cannot keep up with Moore's Law, so peers conduct them. You end up losing things that still remain true, generation to generation regardless of technological changes (hence, "deep" wisdom), and you learn them from your clueless peers.
  • ohashi 15y ago
    Out of curiosity, can you describe what sort of 'deep wisdom' you think isn't/cannot be passed along? It's a rare thing to be deeply moved by what someone is saying (at least in my experience), but I don't think the times I've truly been moved by information being imparted on myself is exclusive to the realm of 'real life.' There are wonderful movies, books, even conversations I've had that have had profound impacts on me as a person. I am not sure if perhaps you think this isn't possible or we are thinking about fundamentally different experiences? I actually thought about this point when I wrote my response, that perhaps it may be limited to the past hundred or two hundred years. However, I am not sure if that's the case or not, I don't know enough history/sociology to make any sort of qualified statement on the subject. The pace at which technological change is happening has certainly increased since the industrial revolution, and I presume that has been a major driver of cultural change as well. I am still not really sure what you mean by learning form clueless peers. It isn't as if all the elders in a society disappeared - most children still go to school, have parents, get jobs, are exposed to role model figures. In fact what do you think of most western countries where population is actually getting older and there is a lack of young people?
    • hosh 15y ago
      "Out of curiosity, can you describe what sort of 'deep wisdom' you think isn't/cannot be passed along?" I assume you mean, "cannot be passed along Facebook, or other Internet-like communications network". Mindfulness is one example. It's difficult to convey over the internet, and still challenging in person. It's the kind of skill that requires someone present to point out when you're being mindful and when you become distracted. You can't force someone else to be mindful. Hell, you can't force yourself to be mindful. Many stories disguise lessons of mindfulness. Fear and dealing with fear is the biggest example. All fear roots back to existential fear. Some (not all) older people have a peculiar attitude because they see their own demise coming, accept it, and live on. The TV show, Breaking Bad is a great example, a man who saw the end of his existence, stripped away all the BS and decided to leave behind a legacy. However, it's one thing to watch characters on the screen deal with fear, and quite another to deal with your own. The mind plays many tricks to comfortably avoid fear. Another person in the same room witnessing your discomfort has significant impact; if they are able to mindfully witness and convey a sense of safety, such interaction helps you gain insight about your fear, and possibly change habits and actions resulting from that. "The pace at which technological change is happening has certainly increased since the industrial revolution, and I presume that has been a major driver of cultural change as well." Though off-topic, you might find this interesting: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2011/06/08/a-brief-history-of-the-corporation-1600-to-2100/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2011/06/08/a-brief-history-of-the-... Venkat's blog post led me to a book, Lever of Riches ... which I think has a lot of useful insights yet seriously flawed. But, it is interesting as a survey of technological history and look at changes within culture as well. I did not know, for example, that clockwork mechanisms reached high art before the invention of moveable type. These clockwork mechanisms directly paved the way for industrialization, and accounts for the obsession some cultures have for gadgets and gadget making. I've also asked this series of questions on Quora. Perhaps you might have some insights: "How has the invention of moveable type accelerated the tempo of invention and innovation?" ( http://www.quora.com/How-has-the-invention-of-moveable-type-accelerated-the-tempo-of-invention-and-innovation http://www.quora.com/How-has-the-invention-of-moveable-type-... ) "How has Open Source accelerated the tempo of software innovation?" ( http://www.quora.com/How-has-Open-Source-accelerated-the-tempo-of-software-innovation http://www.quora.com/How-has-Open-Source-accelerated-the-tem... ) "How has Github accelerated the tempo of software innovation?" ( http://www.quora.com/How-has-Github-accelerated-the-tempo-of-software-innovation http://www.quora.com/How-has-Github-accelerated-the-tempo-of... ) "How does the tempo of innovation within Github differ from that of a geographic technology hub such as Silicon Valley?" ( http://www.quora.com/How-does-the-tempo-of-innovation-within-Github-differ-from-that-of-a-geographic-technology-hub-such-as-Silicon-Valley http://www.quora.com/How-does-the-tempo-of-innovation-within... ) "In fact what do you think of most western countries where population is actually getting older and there is a lack of young people?" I have not studied up on Western cultures as much as I did American and East Asian cultures. I'll think about this. As a distraction, I offer this story. Japan has a cultural value in which the elders (now mostly from the WWII generation) believe that they can and should sacrifice themselves for the future generation, the children. It's a sort of a, strange mix of bushi and Confucian values. Another interesting thing: the Japanese Shinto values of spirit ex machina leads to a great obsession with robots and androids ... and exoskeletons to help the rice farmers continue growing rice. Because many of the younger generation do not want to farm. There's big problems with social recluses. Yet, I have also read reports of the attitudes of the generation just now entering ... post-high school. Unlike their older siblings (about half a generation older), they ... don't quite outright reject their boomer parents workoholic attitude, yet don't seem to run and hide away in a closet. I look forward to the stories coming out of this generation. Maybe I'm wrong about "rites of passage conducted by clueless peers" after all.