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It's extraordinary to imagine that someone published books and papers in major journals without noticing the framework in which they did so. > one of the reaso

It's extraordinary to imagine that someone published books and papers in major journals without noticing the framework in which they did so. > one of the reasons why I choose academia is because I believed in the power of ideas & hard work. MIT is an organisation, a body corporate; it is not the reification of some Platonic ideal of academe; and organisations are inevitably about resourcing, and teamwork. If you want recognition for individual merit, become an Olympic athlete. But of course, you'll then discover, that's about resourcing, and teamwork, too.

cato_the_elder 5y ago
Well, not all organizations need to be strict bureaucracies. Bell Labs didn't work that way. You could certainly argue that the giant bureaucracy model hasn't worked very well for science. Even if you think it has worked well, I think you could see why some people may not like being an ever smaller cog in an ever-growing soul-crushing machine.
- inopinatus 5y ago
  That's pretty rich coming from a 2,200-year-old Roman consul who commanded thousands and literally wrote the first how-to guide of abusive labor practices in the mass agricultural sector.
  - cato_the_elder 5y ago
    :-)) I just noticed that I'm defending César. That's cruel to my great-grandson.
michaelt 5y ago
> It's extraordinary to imagine that someone published books and papers in major journals without noticing the framework in which they did so. When I was doing my PhD I found departments varied wildly, even within the same university. One of my colleagues, a PhD student in the biological sciences, was expected to come in 7 days a week, including christmas day, and regularly worked 10+ hours a day. His professor did have papers in science and nature though. Another colleague, a PhD student in the math department, estimated he got about 3 hours of useful math done in a day, spent the rest of his time in recreation, and completed his PhD a year ahead of schedule. An academic who took the norms of one department and tried to apply them in the other might find themselves unpopular in their new department, no matter which direction they went.
- atrettel 5y ago
  I agree that different departments can vary wildly within a school, and I would go even further to say that different research groups can vary wildly too even within a department. Office culture and politics can be multi-layered and different at different scales, in other words.
- jasonfarnon 5y ago
  estimated he got about 3 hours of useful math done in a day I believe this is a quote from GH Hardy; that not just your friend but anybody does about 3 good hours of creative mathematics in a day.

cato_the_elder 5y ago

Well, not all organizations need to be strict bureaucracies. Bell Labs didn't work that way. You could certainly argue that the giant bureaucracy model hasn't worked very well for science. Even if you think it has worked well, I think you could see why some people may not like being an ever smaller cog in an ever-growing soul-crushing machine.

inopinatus 5y ago
That's pretty rich coming from a 2,200-year-old Roman consul who commanded thousands and literally wrote the first how-to guide of abusive labor practices in the mass agricultural sector.
- cato_the_elder 5y ago
  :-)) I just noticed that I'm defending César. That's cruel to my great-grandson.

michaelt 5y ago

> It's extraordinary to imagine that someone published books and papers in major journals without noticing the framework in which they did so. When I was doing my PhD I found departments varied wildly, even within the same university. One of my colleagues, a PhD student in the biological sciences, was expected to come in 7 days a week, including christmas day, and regularly worked 10+ hours a day. His professor did have papers in science and nature though. Another colleague, a PhD student in the math department, estimated he got about 3 hours of useful math done in a day, spent the rest of his time in recreation, and completed his PhD a year ahead of schedule. An academic who took the norms of one department and tried to apply them in the other might find themselves unpopular in their new department, no matter which direction they went.

atrettel 5y ago
I agree that different departments can vary wildly within a school, and I would go even further to say that different research groups can vary wildly too even within a department. Office culture and politics can be multi-layered and different at different scales, in other words.
jasonfarnon 5y ago
estimated he got about 3 hours of useful math done in a day I believe this is a quote from GH Hardy; that not just your friend but anybody does about 3 good hours of creative mathematics in a day.