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Love my Model 3, but stuff like this is why I am not upgrading to S/X... If it wasn't for the charging network advantage I'd dabble in another EV brand next.

Love my Model 3, but stuff like this is why I am not upgrading to S/X... If it wasn't for the charging network advantage I'd dabble in another EV brand next. Maybe as a second non-roadtrip car only, or wait 5 years for competing networks to catchup. It's not just the yoke, its the complete removal of the control stalks on the steering column. The gear shift is now "predictive" between D/N/R, but you can override it on the stupid touch screen. I cannot imagine having to do a tight parallel parking job in NYC with this garbage interface. The turn signals are touch on the wheel, people are adding stupid 3d bump stickers to give themselves something they can feel for without sight.. to use a stupid turn signal. This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override. Tesla is designed by/for 25-35 year old dudes in sunny California with dry weather and wide well marked freeways, infrequent parallel parking, and I guess don't use their signals.. There's replacement wheels but they are $3k, look like Fisher Price toys, and .. you need to trust your mechanic swaps them correctly enough that the air bags still work flawlessly. No thanks.

brokenmachine 5y ago
>The turn signals are touch on the wheel, people are adding stupid 3d bump stickers to give themselves something they can feel for without sight.. to use a stupid turn signal. >This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override. Both of these should be illegal in my opinion. Indicators and wipers are absolutely essential to operate without looking. I can't believe Tesla gets away with this garbage that puts all road users at risk. What's next? Touch screen steering wheel?
- steveBK123 5y ago
  The thing about Tesla is that it's always been an opinionated car (due to Musk). The same way early single-model iPhones were an opinionated phone (due to Jobs). You can see where sometimes this good, and now more and more you can see where this is bad. The X was a no-go for me already due to the falcon wing doors (more vanity than practical, frequent repair issues, risk of hitting irregular objects on ceiling). Now S is a no-go for me with the yoke (and X doubly so as they put the yoke there too). The Y is interesting as a 3 upgrade but for the hassle with supply chain issues, it doesn't seem like that much more car. Cybertruck is affordable but gigantic, if you can even get your hands on one before mid 2024. Roadster is never going to ship.
buck4roo 5y ago
Reminder: Tesla is the only auto manufacturer in North America not using the J1772/CCS standard. Everyone else has decided to use it. Instead, Tesla continues to install more proprietary charging stations. If Tesla is at all interested in furthering battery electric vehicle technology, they should get with the standard.
- steveBK123 5y ago
  Sure, but what standard was going to win wasn't entirely clear even at the point Tesla was going into Model 3 mass production. Remember for some time, the best selling EV in US was Nissan Leaf which used Chademo. In fact for a long time in the northeast, the most widespread non-Tesla DC fast chargers were Chademo.. CCS only took the lead 2 years ago. This is also why Tesla has sold a Chademo adapter for years here in the states and is only recently releasing a CCS adapter. It's like being mad at Apple for not using USB-C when they invented Lightning (which predates USB-C). For better or worse, Tesla is selling you an ecosystem. Buy our car, it has a strong, widespread, easy to use, affordable charging network. If you buy most other EV brands in the US, you are stuck using ElectrifyAmerica chargers which are more expensive, fewer locations, and critically - incredibly unreliable. Go watch some non-Tesla EV reviews in the US, or car comparisons.. the number of reviewers in manufacturer provided cars having issues with chargers being down, slow, or unable to authenticate with their particular car is insane. There was even an official sponsored event with TV crews to race EVs across America and they repeatedly ran into these issues... We also run a serious risk of the situation getting worse rather than better. Remember that ElectrifyAmerica is part of a settlement with the US Government by VW due to diesel gate. Who knows then the funding winds down and if they have enough 3rd party capital to continue building out, fixing their hardware issues, etc. So for now, unfortunately, it makes sense to buy a Tesla and rely on Tesla chargers - they are incentivized to work well to sell you more cars.
clouddrover 5y ago
> If it wasn't for the charging network advantage I'd dabble in another EV brand next. Why accept a proprietary network in the first place? For the good of all EVs everywhere it's better to go with the open standard. Europe standardized on CCS Type 2 Combo. Tesla switched to it a few years ago and now they are (finally) starting to open their chargers to all EVs just like all the other charging networks: https://electrek.co/2022/02/14/tesla-expands-access-supercharger-network-all-electric-car-all-stations-netherlands/ https://electrek.co/2022/02/14/tesla-expands-access-supercha... Europe's getting it right on EVs. A step in the right direction for North America would be for Tesla to switch to CCS like they did in Europe.
- steveBK123 5y ago
  I mean theres being pragmatic and "accepting" that in North America, especially outside California, Tesla's charging network is 5 years ahead of the competition in terms of locations, plugs, reliability, and even cost. It's not even close. It's crazier than not buying an iPhone due to the lightning plug. At least that is easily solved with the adapter / most people have plenty of cables. In Tesla's case, in 49 of 50 states in US, the proprietary network is actually a huge advantage to the buyer.
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    > I mean theres being pragmatic and "accepting" that in North America It's not pragmatic to stunt the growth of the market. North American EV sales volumes are one third the size of Europe's. North America's inability to do something as basic as standardize on chargers is one of the reasons why.
    - steveBK123 5y ago
      The real reason is size & cost. Americans love big giant cars, and especially cross-overs and trucks. None of these have had competitively priced EV versions until just this year, barely. You still need to spend north of $50K on an EV to get anything approaching the typical American car size. When some of these EV pickup trucks from mainstream makers ship in quantity, the needle will start to move. Europeans are happily replacing small city cars with small sub-250mi range EVs.

brokenmachine 5y ago

>The turn signals are touch on the wheel, people are adding stupid 3d bump stickers to give themselves something they can feel for without sight.. to use a stupid turn signal. >This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override. Both of these should be illegal in my opinion. Indicators and wipers are absolutely essential to operate without looking. I can't believe Tesla gets away with this garbage that puts all road users at risk. What's next? Touch screen steering wheel?

steveBK123 5y ago
The thing about Tesla is that it's always been an opinionated car (due to Musk). The same way early single-model iPhones were an opinionated phone (due to Jobs). You can see where sometimes this good, and now more and more you can see where this is bad. The X was a no-go for me already due to the falcon wing doors (more vanity than practical, frequent repair issues, risk of hitting irregular objects on ceiling). Now S is a no-go for me with the yoke (and X doubly so as they put the yoke there too). The Y is interesting as a 3 upgrade but for the hassle with supply chain issues, it doesn't seem like that much more car. Cybertruck is affordable but gigantic, if you can even get your hands on one before mid 2024. Roadster is never going to ship.

buck4roo 5y ago

Reminder: Tesla is the only auto manufacturer in North America not using the J1772/CCS standard. Everyone else has decided to use it. Instead, Tesla continues to install more proprietary charging stations. If Tesla is at all interested in furthering battery electric vehicle technology, they should get with the standard.

steveBK123 5y ago
Sure, but what standard was going to win wasn't entirely clear even at the point Tesla was going into Model 3 mass production. Remember for some time, the best selling EV in US was Nissan Leaf which used Chademo. In fact for a long time in the northeast, the most widespread non-Tesla DC fast chargers were Chademo.. CCS only took the lead 2 years ago. This is also why Tesla has sold a Chademo adapter for years here in the states and is only recently releasing a CCS adapter. It's like being mad at Apple for not using USB-C when they invented Lightning (which predates USB-C). For better or worse, Tesla is selling you an ecosystem. Buy our car, it has a strong, widespread, easy to use, affordable charging network. If you buy most other EV brands in the US, you are stuck using ElectrifyAmerica chargers which are more expensive, fewer locations, and critically - incredibly unreliable. Go watch some non-Tesla EV reviews in the US, or car comparisons.. the number of reviewers in manufacturer provided cars having issues with chargers being down, slow, or unable to authenticate with their particular car is insane. There was even an official sponsored event with TV crews to race EVs across America and they repeatedly ran into these issues... We also run a serious risk of the situation getting worse rather than better. Remember that ElectrifyAmerica is part of a settlement with the US Government by VW due to diesel gate. Who knows then the funding winds down and if they have enough 3rd party capital to continue building out, fixing their hardware issues, etc. So for now, unfortunately, it makes sense to buy a Tesla and rely on Tesla chargers - they are incentivized to work well to sell you more cars.

clouddrover 5y ago

> If it wasn't for the charging network advantage I'd dabble in another EV brand next. Why accept a proprietary network in the first place? For the good of all EVs everywhere it's better to go with the open standard. Europe standardized on CCS Type 2 Combo. Tesla switched to it a few years ago and now they are (finally) starting to open their chargers to all EVs just like all the other charging networks: https://electrek.co/2022/02/14/tesla-expands-access-supercharger-network-all-electric-car-all-stations-netherlands/ https://electrek.co/2022/02/14/tesla-expands-access-supercha... Europe's getting it right on EVs. A step in the right direction for North America would be for Tesla to switch to CCS like they did in Europe.

steveBK123 5y ago
I mean theres being pragmatic and "accepting" that in North America, especially outside California, Tesla's charging network is 5 years ahead of the competition in terms of locations, plugs, reliability, and even cost. It's not even close. It's crazier than not buying an iPhone due to the lightning plug. At least that is easily solved with the adapter / most people have plenty of cables. In Tesla's case, in 49 of 50 states in US, the proprietary network is actually a huge advantage to the buyer.
- clouddrover 5y ago
  > I mean theres being pragmatic and "accepting" that in North America It's not pragmatic to stunt the growth of the market. North American EV sales volumes are one third the size of Europe's. North America's inability to do something as basic as standardize on chargers is one of the reasons why.
  - steveBK123 5y ago
    The real reason is size & cost. Americans love big giant cars, and especially cross-overs and trucks. None of these have had competitively priced EV versions until just this year, barely. You still need to spend north of $50K on an EV to get anything approaching the typical American car size. When some of these EV pickup trucks from mainstream makers ship in quantity, the needle will start to move. Europeans are happily replacing small city cars with small sub-250mi range EVs.