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Looks interesting but here's what I don't understand. So many programming languages do not show example code on the homepage. That's like if Mazda didn't show c

by mcluck 5y ago

Looks interesting but here's what I don't understand. So many programming languages do not show example code on the homepage. That's like if Mazda didn't show cars on their homepage. Sure, you won't really know what it's like to drive it without getting your hands dirty but at least let me see the trim.

viktorcode 5y ago
Just click "learn more" button and you'll see step by step examples of the language features. A quick take on the front page can't possibly explain much about a language, maybe just a sample of syntax? I don't know why it would've been useful.
- xigoi 5y ago
  Look at Nim's front page: https://nim-lang.org/ https://nim-lang.org/ It features several code samples showcasing many important language features.
- alpaca128 5y ago
  I can only speak for myself, but this kind of abstract listing of features is absolutely meaningless to me. Why would I want to use it instead of others, how do the unique features make a difference at solving a frequent problem? After reading the page I know Skip does something with caching, but I still have no clue what difference it actually makes in a program. In my opinion a programming language landing page without code example is like a game's Steam store page without screenshots - it's cool to know it's a "fast-paced racing game" but that could apply to everything between Tux Racer and Gran Turismo. TypeScript's website shows right at the top in a few lines how it makes an easy mistake in JS impossible. Zig's site has a nice example that gives you an idea of some added features, how it differs from C but still feels similar. Rust's website had an editable and runnable code snippet showing iterators and pattern matching (although for some reason they later replaced it with the phrase "blazingly fast" in the redesign).
- Mawr 5y ago
  > Just click "learn more" button and you'll see step by step examples of the language features. I got bored after about 5 pages, everything presented there is the same as in any other language. I want to see what differentiates this language from others, not what's the same. That is what a landing page of any new language must accomplish - sell the reader on the power of your unique features as fast as possible.
vjeux 5y ago
Great feedback! This is a big oversight.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Do you have any example code that highlights the caching idea described on the main page?
floodle 5y ago
Even worse, the "tutorial" is a challenge of sorts, where you have to guess at the right answer given hints.
- Mathnerd314 5y ago
  The "documentation" is also tutorial-style.
  - toomanydoubts 5y ago
    We need to go deeper.
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  Sure, that's a problem, but once you've figured out the answers you can just skip them next time.
  - davidclevenger 5y ago
    I haven't laughed this hard in a long time
  - ryukoposting 5y ago
    Makes me want to skip the language entirely.
- bidirectional 5y ago
  How is an interactive tutorial bad?
kazinator 5y ago
In the spirit of testing: Mazda doesn't show cars on their home page. Here is mazda.com: Forbidden You don't have permission to access / on this server. You have to add www. to mazda.com before you can see any damn cars. And it's just one car I see; some fat SUV that looks like it's about to give birth to a pair of sporty twins.
- LeoPanthera 5y ago
  In the USA, Mazda is at mazdausa.com, not mazda.com. There are eight cars on the front page.
  - toomanydoubts 5y ago
    So, whats your point? Does that change anything?
    - coldtea 5y ago
      For starters, the first "test" was bogus: grantparent said "front page", but parent tried the naked domain (which Mazda doesn't intent to be the front page).
      - kazinator 5y ago
        > Mazda doesn't intent Do you work for Mazda, or else how do you know? Is this intent published on the real site somewhere, which is what the user is trying to find in the first place when they try mazda.com? Maybe this is just some webmaster that needs to have their ass fired. Trying "mazda.com" for Mazda is the obvious thing for a user to do. I just tried half a dozen multinational corporations that are associated with well-known consumer brands, they all have a page at <name>.com or redirect to one. It is not in any way "bogus" to try that. The mazda.com page doesn't even provide a clue as to where the expected site actually is; that's what is "bogus". For a second I was wondering whether Mazda actually own the domain, or is that someone squatting (yet using a Mazda logo favicon). Not to have a page there which redirects the user to the real one, and just a permission error, comes across as astonishingly unprofessional, especially for a company of the proportions of Mazda. (If it was Uncle Bob's Pizza down the street, I might not think so as much.)
ewittern 5y ago
In that regard, they are taking the language‘s name way too serious.
mshockwave 5y ago
what's worse, even if you click on "more info" it goes to a tutorial that teaches you from zero. But I'm more eager to know killer features in this language.
pharmakom 5y ago
Maybe a feature list tells you more than a code list might show? Often syntax is the less interesting thing.
- toomanydoubts 5y ago
  I'm not sure. If we're talking about turing complete languages, aside from performace, you can get all kinds of features in all kinds of languages. It's actually a matter of how expressive, safe, idiomatic and well designed they are for everyday usage. When discussing a language which is defined by caching values, we sure do want to see how that looks like in practice.

by mcluck 5y ago

viktorcode 5y ago

Just click "learn more" button and you'll see step by step examples of the language features. A quick take on the front page can't possibly explain much about a language, maybe just a sample of syntax? I don't know why it would've been useful.

xigoi 5y ago
Look at Nim's front page: https://nim-lang.org/ https://nim-lang.org/ It features several code samples showcasing many important language features.
alpaca128 5y ago
I can only speak for myself, but this kind of abstract listing of features is absolutely meaningless to me. Why would I want to use it instead of others, how do the unique features make a difference at solving a frequent problem? After reading the page I know Skip does something with caching, but I still have no clue what difference it actually makes in a program. In my opinion a programming language landing page without code example is like a game's Steam store page without screenshots - it's cool to know it's a "fast-paced racing game" but that could apply to everything between Tux Racer and Gran Turismo. TypeScript's website shows right at the top in a few lines how it makes an easy mistake in JS impossible. Zig's site has a nice example that gives you an idea of some added features, how it differs from C but still feels similar. Rust's website had an editable and runnable code snippet showing iterators and pattern matching (although for some reason they later replaced it with the phrase "blazingly fast" in the redesign).
Mawr 5y ago
> Just click "learn more" button and you'll see step by step examples of the language features. I got bored after about 5 pages, everything presented there is the same as in any other language. I want to see what differentiates this language from others, not what's the same. That is what a landing page of any new language must accomplish - sell the reader on the power of your unique features as fast as possible.

vjeux 5y ago

Great feedback! This is a big oversight.

spicybright 5y ago
Do you have any example code that highlights the caching idea described on the main page?

floodle 5y ago

Even worse, the "tutorial" is a challenge of sorts, where you have to guess at the right answer given hints.

Mathnerd314 5y ago
The "documentation" is also tutorial-style.
- toomanydoubts 5y ago
  We need to go deeper.
notreallyserio 5y ago
Sure, that's a problem, but once you've figured out the answers you can just skip them next time.
- davidclevenger 5y ago
  I haven't laughed this hard in a long time
- ryukoposting 5y ago
  Makes me want to skip the language entirely.
bidirectional 5y ago
How is an interactive tutorial bad?

kazinator 5y ago

In the spirit of testing: Mazda doesn't show cars on their home page. Here is mazda.com: Forbidden You don't have permission to access / on this server. You have to add www. to mazda.com before you can see any damn cars. And it's just one car I see; some fat SUV that looks like it's about to give birth to a pair of sporty twins.

LeoPanthera 5y ago
In the USA, Mazda is at mazdausa.com, not mazda.com. There are eight cars on the front page.
- toomanydoubts 5y ago
  So, whats your point? Does that change anything?
  - coldtea 5y ago
    For starters, the first "test" was bogus: grantparent said "front page", but parent tried the naked domain (which Mazda doesn't intent to be the front page).
    - kazinator 5y ago
      > Mazda doesn't intent Do you work for Mazda, or else how do you know? Is this intent published on the real site somewhere, which is what the user is trying to find in the first place when they try mazda.com? Maybe this is just some webmaster that needs to have their ass fired. Trying "mazda.com" for Mazda is the obvious thing for a user to do. I just tried half a dozen multinational corporations that are associated with well-known consumer brands, they all have a page at <name>.com or redirect to one. It is not in any way "bogus" to try that. The mazda.com page doesn't even provide a clue as to where the expected site actually is; that's what is "bogus". For a second I was wondering whether Mazda actually own the domain, or is that someone squatting (yet using a Mazda logo favicon). Not to have a page there which redirects the user to the real one, and just a permission error, comes across as astonishingly unprofessional, especially for a company of the proportions of Mazda. (If it was Uncle Bob's Pizza down the street, I might not think so as much.)

ewittern 5y ago

In that regard, they are taking the language‘s name way too serious.

mshockwave 5y ago

what's worse, even if you click on "more info" it goes to a tutorial that teaches you from zero. But I'm more eager to know killer features in this language.

pharmakom 5y ago

Maybe a feature list tells you more than a code list might show? Often syntax is the less interesting thing.

toomanydoubts 5y ago
I'm not sure. If we're talking about turing complete languages, aside from performace, you can get all kinds of features in all kinds of languages. It's actually a matter of how expressive, safe, idiomatic and well designed they are for everyday usage. When discussing a language which is defined by caching values, we sure do want to see how that looks like in practice.