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This is a bad take for several reasons. 1. Ottawa police have basically put zero effort into doing anything about the nighttime noise or generally criminal beh

This is a bad take for several reasons. 1. Ottawa police have basically put zero effort into doing anything about the nighttime noise or generally criminal behaviour of the "protestors." 2. The federal government should not be stepping in immediately to solve policing issues like this precisely until the situation becomes untenable. THAT would have been draconian and authoritarian. 3. Beyond the city police, the provinces themselves needed to precipitate asking for this in some way, or to appear completely nonresponsive. This is why you saw states of emergency in the City, then in the Province, and only then was the act engaged. 4. The law that was invoked was an (IMO) very well designed piece of legislation that was designed to replace something called the War Measures Act, which was abused by Trudeau senior to end a terrorism threat in Quebec. That overstep of federal authority essentially ensured that law would never remain on the books and it was later replaced with this act. This is why today, tomorrow, and through Monday, there are debates going on on the house floor around the invocation of the Emergencies Act, and if the whole of parliament doesn't agree they can simply end it Monday at the conclusion of the debate when they vote on it. These rules are all clearly spelled out in the legislation. There's also effectively a review process where if this is engaged they must review and continue to agree to keep it in force over time, meaning it could not be an indefinite thing unless the majority of MPs agreed to keep it in force.

mindslight 5y ago
I purposely stayed away from #1-3, to avoid getting dragged into partisan muck. I would call the situation untenable when the local police are no longer under control of their civilian governments, and I would say at that point the federal police stepping in is entirely appropriate. Part of their actions should include holding the insubordinate and corrupt local police accountable. (Also note I said the easiest thing gets used, not the most authoritarian or extreme) #4 seems like a decent check on the action, but the action itself is repulsively technocratic - cutting citizens off from the necessary infrastructure of the banking system, by executive decree. And regardless of being heavy handed, it seems ineffectual for actually discouraging the protests and if anything might just increase their resolve.
- BeefWellington 5y ago
  > I would call the situation untenable when the local police are no longer under control of their civilian governments, and I would say at that point the federal police stepping in is entirely appropriate. This is not how Canada works unfortunately. Provinces there are essentially in control of everything and either have to make the requests for help or appear derelict enough in their duties for the federal government to step in. Ottawa is on one side of a river which makes up the eastern border between Ontario and Quebec and a sizeable portion of the people who live and work there cross the river each day. In order to ask the Quebec police forces that are literally in zipline distance of the place this is happening (hyperbole but not by much[1]), Ottawa had to jump through a bunch of hoops, and basically this emergency act use allowed them to ask for help from someone other than Provincial (OPP) and Federal (RCMP) forces. > Part of their actions should include holding the insubordinate and corrupt local police accountable. (Also note how I said the easiest thing gets used, not the most authoritarian) This has actually been done. The police chief's been forced to resign, as have the city councilors who were running the police services board of the city (the leadership was essentially voted out and then a few more on the board resigned in protest). The problem is these things take time. Had the police simply done their jobs from day 1 we wouldn't be here. I have posted a great deal about this situation in the past weeks and I think I would actually be in favor of these political posts being removed from HN entirely for a couple of reasons: 1. Something that is VERY unusual crops up: lack of nuance or research on replies. This isn't unique to this event; I've noticed it about a few of the political/politicized threads in the past. 2. Making no assumptions about yourself, HN is primarily American and so everything is viewed through that lens. The problem with that is that not every country has the same history, culture, legal system, political system, etc. Invariably posters slip into "this is right, this is not" and there's no room for the middle ground. [1]: https://interzip.ca/en/faq https://interzip.ca/en/faq

mindslight 5y ago

I purposely stayed away from #1-3, to avoid getting dragged into partisan muck. I would call the situation untenable when the local police are no longer under control of their civilian governments, and I would say at that point the federal police stepping in is entirely appropriate. Part of their actions should include holding the insubordinate and corrupt local police accountable. (Also note I said the easiest thing gets used, not the most authoritarian or extreme) #4 seems like a decent check on the action, but the action itself is repulsively technocratic - cutting citizens off from the necessary infrastructure of the banking system, by executive decree. And regardless of being heavy handed, it seems ineffectual for actually discouraging the protests and if anything might just increase their resolve.

BeefWellington 5y ago
> I would call the situation untenable when the local police are no longer under control of their civilian governments, and I would say at that point the federal police stepping in is entirely appropriate. This is not how Canada works unfortunately. Provinces there are essentially in control of everything and either have to make the requests for help or appear derelict enough in their duties for the federal government to step in. Ottawa is on one side of a river which makes up the eastern border between Ontario and Quebec and a sizeable portion of the people who live and work there cross the river each day. In order to ask the Quebec police forces that are literally in zipline distance of the place this is happening (hyperbole but not by much[1]), Ottawa had to jump through a bunch of hoops, and basically this emergency act use allowed them to ask for help from someone other than Provincial (OPP) and Federal (RCMP) forces. > Part of their actions should include holding the insubordinate and corrupt local police accountable. (Also note how I said the easiest thing gets used, not the most authoritarian) This has actually been done. The police chief's been forced to resign, as have the city councilors who were running the police services board of the city (the leadership was essentially voted out and then a few more on the board resigned in protest). The problem is these things take time. Had the police simply done their jobs from day 1 we wouldn't be here. I have posted a great deal about this situation in the past weeks and I think I would actually be in favor of these political posts being removed from HN entirely for a couple of reasons: 1. Something that is VERY unusual crops up: lack of nuance or research on replies. This isn't unique to this event; I've noticed it about a few of the political/politicized threads in the past. 2. Making no assumptions about yourself, HN is primarily American and so everything is viewed through that lens. The problem with that is that not every country has the same history, culture, legal system, political system, etc. Invariably posters slip into "this is right, this is not" and there's no room for the middle ground. [1]: https://interzip.ca/en/faq https://interzip.ca/en/faq