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Consumer Reports Dropped Tesla in Its Rankings and It's Because of the Yoke

23 points by Osiris 5y ago

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Even the hardcore Tesla owners I know aren't happy about the yoke. This feels like the automotive version of the designers forcing a backwards UI/UX change because it looks good in promotional photos and slide decks but makes the app worse to use for users.
- karmakaze 5y ago
  That seems to be taking a page from Apple design philosophy--oversimplify to make things 'look' easy. Their target audience is the person who wants to buy an Apple product and sees someone using it.
- pengaru 5y ago
  I just assumed Tesla's actively sabotaging manual driving for obvious reasons.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Waterluvian 5y ago
Can you replace it? I’ve seen cars where the wheel is basically a user customizable part.
beamatronic 5y ago
Love my Tesla, but a yoke is a deal-breaker for me.
xedrac 5y ago
I haven't tried the yoke, but I'm awfully skeptical about its utility. Maybe they adjusted the turning ratios, or made them non-linear to compensate.
- nikau 5y ago
  Nope, its only purpose is to look modern like 1980s knight rider. Watching videos of people doing parking maneuvers with the yoke is hilarious.
steveBK123 5y ago
Love my Model 3, but stuff like this is why I am not upgrading to S/X... If it wasn't for the charging network advantage I'd dabble in another EV brand next. Maybe as a second non-roadtrip car only, or wait 5 years for competing networks to catchup. It's not just the yoke, its the complete removal of the control stalks on the steering column. The gear shift is now "predictive" between D/N/R, but you can override it on the stupid touch screen. I cannot imagine having to do a tight parallel parking job in NYC with this garbage interface. The turn signals are touch on the wheel, people are adding stupid 3d bump stickers to give themselves something they can feel for without sight.. to use a stupid turn signal. This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override. Tesla is designed by/for 25-35 year old dudes in sunny California with dry weather and wide well marked freeways, infrequent parallel parking, and I guess don't use their signals.. There's replacement wheels but they are $3k, look like Fisher Price toys, and .. you need to trust your mechanic swaps them correctly enough that the air bags still work flawlessly. No thanks.
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  >The turn signals are touch on the wheel, people are adding stupid 3d bump stickers to give themselves something they can feel for without sight.. to use a stupid turn signal. >This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override. Both of these should be illegal in my opinion. Indicators and wipers are absolutely essential to operate without looking. I can't believe Tesla gets away with this garbage that puts all road users at risk. What's next? Touch screen steering wheel?
  - steveBK123 5y ago
    The thing about Tesla is that it's always been an opinionated car (due to Musk). The same way early single-model iPhones were an opinionated phone (due to Jobs). You can see where sometimes this good, and now more and more you can see where this is bad. The X was a no-go for me already due to the falcon wing doors (more vanity than practical, frequent repair issues, risk of hitting irregular objects on ceiling). Now S is a no-go for me with the yoke (and X doubly so as they put the yoke there too). The Y is interesting as a 3 upgrade but for the hassle with supply chain issues, it doesn't seem like that much more car. Cybertruck is affordable but gigantic, if you can even get your hands on one before mid 2024. Roadster is never going to ship.
joshribakoff 5y ago
When I first got my Tesla, the “gas” pedal was annoyingly further forward than the brake pedal. As “full self driving” progressed I drive “manually” increasingly less often and now what once annoyed me is convenient, I can easily rest my foot there near the gas pedal without accidentally pressing it, at the ready to hit the brake pedal if needed which is located next to where my foot sits. It took several years before the design started to make sense and grew on me. When your car drives more and more autonomously having manual controls that can accidentally be activated start to make less sense, we’re not there yet, but someday there will likely be no steering wheel at all and people will react the same way they are now.
- grp000 5y ago
  In a commodity device, I think that would make sense. A steering wheel is life critical. No system is ever fault proof, and in the case of failure, you'll definitely want a backup here, unlike in a commodity good or service where a failure doesn't matter that much.
  - buck4roo 5y ago
    Isn't steering drive-by-wire here? Failure is not an option... I hope.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      Pretty sure it's just a conventional rack-and-pinion with a steering wheel at the end of a collapsible column physically connected to the pinion, like almost every other car. There's just an electric power assist that can also drive the rack without involving the driver. https://www.ebay.com/itm/143911509282 https://www.ebay.com/itm/143911509282
      - grp000 5y ago
        They bring up a good point though. Society has decided that conventional steering systems are within defined failure bounds, assuming a perfectly safe driver of course. So to remove the steering wheel from a Tesla, FSD must be as fault tolerant as steering wheel failure limitations, plus some driver competence metric. Of course that also doesn't take into account the thorny issue of the intersection of safe actions on Tesla FSD actions to human driver actions. FSD has a long way to go.
hnburnsy 5y ago
So the 3 and Y don't have the yoke, and not one Model X with the yoke has been delivered, but this... > Tesla Inc’s new “yoke” steering wheel installed in Model S sedans and Model X sport utility vehicles is so difficult to use that it dropped the most valuable automaker’s position in the Consumer Reports annual car brand rankings by seven spots to 23rd place - below average, the independent testing organization said on Thursday.
technofiend 5y ago
This feels like an example of why you don't hire primadonas or assholes. Obviously one person has bullied everyone at Tesla into some alleged groupthink consensus that the yoke is just amazing and people just don't get it if they disagree. Whoever that person is is entirely wrong. It'll be interesting to see if Tesla can actually back down or if the next version of their driving interface will require a Tesla chip implant, eye tracking or something equally inane.
vaidhy 5y ago
I just went for a ride on my friend's tesla and there are multiple things that are a deal breaker for me. No blind spot car indication on the side view mirrors, everything is hidden under multiple levels in menu. The actual range is much below the advertised range and calibrating the battery is not trivial. It feels like there is too much of armchair design than actually helping the driver. Everything is designed around people looking at the screen and not at the road.
jbuhbjlnjbn 5y ago
The yoke shape itself compared to the steering wheel is not a big problem, it might even help to steer corectly as in hand positions and overgripping for sharp turns. But the move from intuitive, easy controls to touchscreens is horrible. Touchscreens do not work correctly if your fingers are wet, dusty, covered with something like a patch over a wound. Maybe you want to use gloves? Additionally, placing those controls on the turning part of the yoke is a very bad design decision. There horn's main function is to warn other drivers in dangerous situations. You need to be able to use it quickly without thinking. That's why good car makers place it right in the middle of the steering wheel and the whole middle can be used. It is a proven design.

23 points by Osiris 5y ago

Even the hardcore Tesla owners I know aren't happy about the yoke. This feels like the automotive version of the designers forcing a backwards UI/UX change because it looks good in promotional photos and slide decks but makes the app worse to use for users.

karmakaze 5y ago
That seems to be taking a page from Apple design philosophy--oversimplify to make things 'look' easy. Their target audience is the person who wants to buy an Apple product and sees someone using it.
pengaru 5y ago
I just assumed Tesla's actively sabotaging manual driving for obvious reasons.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Waterluvian 5y ago

Can you replace it? I’ve seen cars where the wheel is basically a user customizable part.

beamatronic 5y ago

Love my Tesla, but a yoke is a deal-breaker for me.

xedrac 5y ago

I haven't tried the yoke, but I'm awfully skeptical about its utility. Maybe they adjusted the turning ratios, or made them non-linear to compensate.

nikau 5y ago
Nope, its only purpose is to look modern like 1980s knight rider. Watching videos of people doing parking maneuvers with the yoke is hilarious.

steveBK123 5y ago

Love my Model 3, but stuff like this is why I am not upgrading to S/X... If it wasn't for the charging network advantage I'd dabble in another EV brand next. Maybe as a second non-roadtrip car only, or wait 5 years for competing networks to catchup. It's not just the yoke, its the complete removal of the control stalks on the steering column. The gear shift is now "predictive" between D/N/R, but you can override it on the stupid touch screen. I cannot imagine having to do a tight parallel parking job in NYC with this garbage interface. The turn signals are touch on the wheel, people are adding stupid 3d bump stickers to give themselves something they can feel for without sight.. to use a stupid turn signal. This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override. Tesla is designed by/for 25-35 year old dudes in sunny California with dry weather and wide well marked freeways, infrequent parallel parking, and I guess don't use their signals.. There's replacement wheels but they are $3k, look like Fisher Price toys, and .. you need to trust your mechanic swaps them correctly enough that the air bags still work flawlessly. No thanks.

brokenmachine 5y ago
>The turn signals are touch on the wheel, people are adding stupid 3d bump stickers to give themselves something they can feel for without sight.. to use a stupid turn signal. >This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override. Both of these should be illegal in my opinion. Indicators and wipers are absolutely essential to operate without looking. I can't believe Tesla gets away with this garbage that puts all road users at risk. What's next? Touch screen steering wheel?
- steveBK123 5y ago
  The thing about Tesla is that it's always been an opinionated car (due to Musk). The same way early single-model iPhones were an opinionated phone (due to Jobs). You can see where sometimes this good, and now more and more you can see where this is bad. The X was a no-go for me already due to the falcon wing doors (more vanity than practical, frequent repair issues, risk of hitting irregular objects on ceiling). Now S is a no-go for me with the yoke (and X doubly so as they put the yoke there too). The Y is interesting as a 3 upgrade but for the hassle with supply chain issues, it doesn't seem like that much more car. Cybertruck is affordable but gigantic, if you can even get your hands on one before mid 2024. Roadster is never going to ship.

joshribakoff 5y ago

When I first got my Tesla, the “gas” pedal was annoyingly further forward than the brake pedal. As “full self driving” progressed I drive “manually” increasingly less often and now what once annoyed me is convenient, I can easily rest my foot there near the gas pedal without accidentally pressing it, at the ready to hit the brake pedal if needed which is located next to where my foot sits. It took several years before the design started to make sense and grew on me. When your car drives more and more autonomously having manual controls that can accidentally be activated start to make less sense, we’re not there yet, but someday there will likely be no steering wheel at all and people will react the same way they are now.

grp000 5y ago
In a commodity device, I think that would make sense. A steering wheel is life critical. No system is ever fault proof, and in the case of failure, you'll definitely want a backup here, unlike in a commodity good or service where a failure doesn't matter that much.
- buck4roo 5y ago
  Isn't steering drive-by-wire here? Failure is not an option... I hope.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    Pretty sure it's just a conventional rack-and-pinion with a steering wheel at the end of a collapsible column physically connected to the pinion, like almost every other car. There's just an electric power assist that can also drive the rack without involving the driver. https://www.ebay.com/itm/143911509282 https://www.ebay.com/itm/143911509282
    - grp000 5y ago
      They bring up a good point though. Society has decided that conventional steering systems are within defined failure bounds, assuming a perfectly safe driver of course. So to remove the steering wheel from a Tesla, FSD must be as fault tolerant as steering wheel failure limitations, plus some driver competence metric. Of course that also doesn't take into account the thorny issue of the intersection of safe actions on Tesla FSD actions to human driver actions. FSD has a long way to go.

hnburnsy 5y ago

So the 3 and Y don't have the yoke, and not one Model X with the yoke has been delivered, but this... > Tesla Inc’s new “yoke” steering wheel installed in Model S sedans and Model X sport utility vehicles is so difficult to use that it dropped the most valuable automaker’s position in the Consumer Reports annual car brand rankings by seven spots to 23rd place - below average, the independent testing organization said on Thursday.

technofiend 5y ago

This feels like an example of why you don't hire primadonas or assholes. Obviously one person has bullied everyone at Tesla into some alleged groupthink consensus that the yoke is just amazing and people just don't get it if they disagree. Whoever that person is is entirely wrong. It'll be interesting to see if Tesla can actually back down or if the next version of their driving interface will require a Tesla chip implant, eye tracking or something equally inane.

vaidhy 5y ago

I just went for a ride on my friend's tesla and there are multiple things that are a deal breaker for me. No blind spot car indication on the side view mirrors, everything is hidden under multiple levels in menu. The actual range is much below the advertised range and calibrating the battery is not trivial. It feels like there is too much of armchair design than actually helping the driver. Everything is designed around people looking at the screen and not at the road.

jbuhbjlnjbn 5y ago

The yoke shape itself compared to the steering wheel is not a big problem, it might even help to steer corectly as in hand positions and overgripping for sharp turns. But the move from intuitive, easy controls to touchscreens is horrible. Touchscreens do not work correctly if your fingers are wet, dusty, covered with something like a patch over a wound. Maybe you want to use gloves? Additionally, placing those controls on the turning part of the yoke is a very bad design decision. There horn's main function is to warn other drivers in dangerous situations. You need to be able to use it quickly without thinking. That's why good car makers place it right in the middle of the steering wheel and the whole middle can be used. It is a proven design.